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View Full Version : Toyota Brake Caliper conversion ?



SCguy
05-30-2006, 11:01 AM
My TR4 was missing brake calipers when I got it. One thought that I'm having is that I might do the four piston converstion since I have to source calipers anyway. There's a detailed description on the VTR website of this converstion.Too much information for me. (I get lost in all the extra details as I'm a visual learner) It sounds as though the only real problems would be the brake lines and bolts to hold the calipers on. If I'm correct I just need the later TR6 bolts, but I'm confused about the brake lines. Can anyone tell what to buy and where to buy them? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

bobh
05-30-2006, 11:06 AM
Check Lee Janssen's writeup.
https://www.turbo-tr6.info/tr6_brake_install.html

05-30-2006, 11:55 AM
Buy an 18" line to fit the Toyota caliper, a pipe cutter and a brake flare kit (there is one on amazon for about $20 that I used).

Cut it in 1/2 and flare the other end. You can reuse your original pipe-flexible line nuts here - just make sure you put them on before you flare. I have pics at home if you need them. They give you a different perspective on the bends.

If you need a recommendation for buying calipers I can help you there too - they came in $220 the set delivered, loaded, including the core charge (which was more than 1/2 the cost) last summer.

martx-5
05-30-2006, 12:18 PM
If you have an early TR4, the Toyota calipers will not mount up to the caliper bracket with the rotor on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hammer.gif

I'm going through this now with my TR3. They have the same bracket as the early TR4's. The later brackets space the caliper out a little further out away from the rotor. If you go on the Moss website, they give the VIN cut-off on the TR4's. I got a set of TR6 caliper brackets and will see how they work out tonight. Should be OK.

Edit: After looking on the Moss site, (https://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=45156&SortOrder=2) it looks the the problem is with the cars with the 11" rotors (TR3's). It's not the rotor size, but the brackets. So your TR4 should be OK.

milemarker60
05-30-2006, 04:32 PM
Check in with Ted @ TSI as he has made up braided stainless lines that replace the original rubber ones that already have the proper TR fitting on one side and a 90 deg Toyota fitting on the other. I had the guys at Classic Tube make some up for me when they made my pre-bent stainless hard-lines but Ted has them and they are cheaper. This aleviates the need for the little pipes that Lee mentions on his website and makes for a very easy install.

I purchased my Calipers from Advance Auto for $55ea (Cardone brand with lifetime warranty) and supplied them with a set of cores from a local salvage yard that cost me $5ea. They don't care what the cores come off of. You will need the bolts off the later TR6 to get the correct bolt shank. Don't forget, you'll also need the proper rotors.

05-30-2006, 04:48 PM
Advance - that's where mine came from.

Been trying to remember the name all afternoon. I was too lazy to find cores, so I ate the charge. Just remember to order left and right, not two left like one guy I know...

martx-5
05-30-2006, 05:06 PM
Good info from milemarker60... I just got home and put the caliper bracket from the TR6 on my TR3. I installed the rotor (10 3/4"), bolted up the caliper, and everything fit great.

Therefore, those of you contemplating the Toyota calipers on a TR3, you will need the caliper brackets from a TR4-TR6.

Since the brake line enters at the rear of the spindle rather then the front, I also had to make up a bracket for the brake line. That was done with a piece of 3/4" x 1/8" steel. A couple of holes, a 90 deg bend, and a slight twist put everything in place nicely. This was done with the two piece brake line set-up. I may still look into the one piece line that milemarker60 mentioned...it may be a cleaner install.

SCguy
05-30-2006, 07:17 PM
"Check in with Ted @ TSI"

TSI stands for??? Anyone have a number? Ordered my calpers today.

mrv8q
05-30-2006, 07:26 PM
Martx-5, when you're done, I'd love to see you do a little write-up on what you accomplished... The 4-pot interests me... Do you need a brake proportioning valve between front and rear?

martx-5
05-30-2006, 08:14 PM
[ QUOTE ]
"Check in with Ted @ TSI"

TSI stands for??? Anyone have a number? Ordered my calpers today.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here ya go... https://www.tsimportedautomotive.com/

PeterK
05-30-2006, 08:48 PM
ISTR that macysgarage.com offers a pre-bent conversion brake hard line that goes from the metric threaded caliper to the original soft line.

martx-5
05-30-2006, 09:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Martx-5, when you're done, I'd love to see you do a little write-up on what you accomplished... The 4-pot interests me... Do you need a brake proportioning valve between front and rear?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can do that. Once I'm done making up the bracket for the other side and straighten out a few other things, I'll take some pics etc. and give you some dimensional data.

What I couldn't figure out was why Moss etc. didn't sell this Toyota kit for the TR3s. I work for an electrical rebuilder, and we also do calipers. So I took a couple of the 4-pot Toyotas off the shelf to see how things would fit. It turned out the the problem was the caliper brackets. The TR6 brackets move the caliper out about 1/4" compared to thee TR3 bracket, which allows the Toyota caliper to bolt right up. No one carries the bracket new. However, there should be plenty of used ones out there.

With the TR6 brackets, the late TR6 caliper bolts (the shoulder measures about .470" or 12mm), and the metric end brake line, the conversion works. Also, you will need the 10 3/4" rotor if you have the 11". Of course, if you're really on a budget, you could cut the 11" one down. There's nothing but rust on the edge anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif

Whether or not this system will need a brake proportioning valve, I don't know. Moss doesn't include it in their kits. Did Triumph put one in the TR4-TR6?? I don't think they did.

Also, I've read about the Morgan rear drum wheel cylinders as being better for brake balance on these cars, even with the stock calipers. Has anybody put them on a TR3??

I'm really not expecting miracles from this setup. I don't think that stopping distances will drop appreciably...I'd probably get better stopping distances with the Morgan rear cylinders...but I think that pedal pressure should improve, fade resistance should improve, and I know there is less unsprung weight with the Toyota calipers. I have the one piece (bridge pipe) Girlings and they weigh in at about 12 lbs. while the Toyota weighs in at about 9 lbs.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thirsty.gif

06-01-2006, 12:36 PM
fyi - no idea what he's selling them at normally.

https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TR6-to-To...1QQcmdZViewItem (https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TR6-to-Toyota-4-piston-caliper-steelbraid-brake-hose_W0QQitemZ4644450224QQcategoryZ34199QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem)

ALLAN
06-01-2006, 02:53 PM
couldnt find the brake lines on macysgarage site??

ALLAN
06-02-2006, 12:06 PM
PeterK said that macysgarage.com has the conversion brake lines for the Toyata calipers,----I emailed macysgarge and they say they have never offered the conversion or any parts for it.

JamesWilson
06-02-2006, 07:49 PM
The relevant Brake Conversion Article (https://www.vintagetriumphregister.org/maintain/brake-conversion.shtml) from the VTR site notes a roughly 20 foot improvement in stopping distances based on a 74 TR6 running at 3000 rpm in 4th gear with a 3.45 differential and 205-70 R15 tires. They comment that a proportioning valve wasn't needed for their set-up.

PeterK
06-02-2006, 08:47 PM
OK now i have to remember where i saw them (just recently too). the site offered 2 hardlines: metric on the caliper side and 3/16"IF on the other, to connect to the tab and the rubber/stainless soft line. Price was $30/pair. Just a matter of time and i/ll remember.

PeterK
06-02-2006, 08:50 PM
not this one, but nice!
https://www.tr6car11.bravehost.com/BRAKES.html

PeterK
06-02-2006, 08:54 PM
this is the vented conversion with picture to make you own line https://turbo-tr6.info/tr6_brake_install.html
but still not the one i saw...

06-02-2006, 09:06 PM
Well the ebay ad is TSI getting rid of stuff. Try him first.

PeterK
06-02-2006, 09:38 PM
no not from Ted either but i do like his braided hose idea; the only trouble with the braided lines as i see them is the extra adapter the screws in, rather than being attached directly. imo, it's an(other) opportunity for leaks.

it looks like (do not know for a fact) he uses an std. AN3 (jic) to AN3 hose and then an AN3 to metric M-M adapter. AN3 has a 3/16" UNF thread that will fit the TR but AN3 is 37degrees and TR uses a 42 degreee inverted flare fitting. to solve the flare angle diff, pegasus racing sells a little copper flare crush tip for about .70.

anyway, i'll keep looking.

SCguy
06-02-2006, 09:45 PM
I just bought mine from TSI. As I talked with him he remarked that he needed to try to get the word out that he had these for sale. His website is a little /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

ALLAN
06-02-2006, 11:38 PM
TRF has the late model bolts with the metric shank that will bolt up the toyota calipers, current price is $5.75 each-- part number (not in their regular catolog) is 158668. Victoria British wants $8.95 each

TR4nut
06-09-2006, 07:57 AM
Old thread, but I stumbled on another source for those hard brake lines for anyone contemplating the conversion:

https://www.trparts.com/newitems/adapter.html

Randy

PeterK
06-09-2006, 08:43 AM
those (hard lines) are the ones I thought macysgarage sold. thanks for finding them, it was driving me crazy searching for the line. duh ... trparts.com

when I fab'ed my own, I tried this design and found that at full lock the "hoop part" would interfere with my coil springs, so I bent the hoop up 90 degrees. it was a much harder bend since these lines are so small but it works. I guess it's another reason to consider flexible SS lines but these would have to be tied off to prevent fouling on the suspension too.