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2long
12-23-2017, 10:45 PM
My TR2 coil went bad, so I got a new one from Moss which was a Lucas Sport coil. I am having some issues again with intermittent very rough running, where the car will run smooth for a bit, but then stumble and run poorly. After sitting for a bit, runs good again, but not for long before it was running poorly again. Fuel delivery seems ok, with fuel in the float bowls. Cleaned the points and after that it ran ok for a bit, and then stumbling again. I am suspicious of the coil I got, but not sure. Gawd, have I opened a can of worms asking for thoughts?

Aloha

Dan

TR3driver
12-24-2017, 01:30 AM
Probably. Ken Gillanders once told me that he tested an entire case of brand new Lucas sports coils he bought (for resale through BFE). Over half the case was either weak or DOA. He threw the entire case away.

I had a somewhat similar experience myself, as my original TR3 coil died on the way to VTR 2009. I bought a Lucas sports coil at the show, which lasted less than a year. After the failure, the engine would start (with great difficulty) from stone cold but only run for a few seconds before it got too bad to move the car at all.

My suggestion (and what I did) is to pick up an ordinary coil at FLAPS, along with the ballast resistor it requires, and hook that up temporarily. If that solves the problem, pick up a 3 ohm Pertronix coil from Amazon and use that. You'll need to rework the connections a bit, but that's no big deal. If you're lucky, FLAPS might even have the clip and boot to convert the high tension wire to match the new coil.
https://www.ebay.com/p/10-Pices-Brass-Spark-Plug-Distributor-Wire-Terminal-Ends-Motorcraft-5301/2127369309?iid=182696223541&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%2 6asc%3D41375%26meid%3D9ee4cf8585734d1fa370cfb9fb83 e50d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D1426 06566877&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

NutmegCT
12-24-2017, 09:17 AM
Dan - what were the car's symptoms that got you to replace that old coil?

Is the tumbling, unstable idle the same problem you had before replacing the first coil?

I'm wondering if the problem wasn't the coil at all. Maybe fuel, sediment, or even distributor. I had a similar problem on my TR3, which was caused by a loose connection inside the distributor head; the connection would jiggle loose depending on temperature, engine speed, and vacuum changes. Took me forever to troubleshoot and fix.

Tom M.

TFB
12-24-2017, 10:29 AM
My TR2 coil went bad, so I got a new one from Moss which was a Lucas Sport coil. I am having some issues again with intermittent very rough running, where the car will run smooth for a bit, but then stumble and run poorly. After sitting for a bit, runs good again, but not for long before it was running poorly again. Fuel delivery seems ok, with fuel in the float bowls. Cleaned the points and after that it ran ok for a bit, and then stumbling again. I am suspicious of the coil I got, but not sure. Gawd, have I opened a can of worms asking for thoughts?

Aloha

Dan

The last time I had similar problems my points contacts were in pretty bad shape after 4500m while the previous set looked very good when changed after 5k.I run a bosch blue coil from advanedistributors,but my lucas sport coil has been working for 5 years on my tractor.

sp53
12-24-2017, 11:49 AM
I had one of those coils fail in 200 hundred miles. I would carry a spare. Some auto parts stores still have a part number for the coil. It has been a while, I would ask for a 1967 tr4 coil; I think they are the same. Plus Marv probably has something. I recently went through a similar problem and it turned out to be plug wires. I had made up a set with metal wire for the car a couple of years ago with those screw on plastic ends that were older. I finally switched out the cap and wires and that fixed it—But in the pain and drama of it-- I replaced and flushed out, kicked out, punched out the entire car, including myself. Plus I found some quality points and rotor, but the parts book was wrong on some of it; however, in the sorting it out, I saw the Sunbeam Alpine stuff and numbers worked for tr3 and that was at a Baxter’s store.
steve

JohnnyMead
12-24-2017, 05:47 PM
I had two coils fail within six months, a pertronix and a no name. I never found a common cause, but did discover that one of them could be brought back to the correct ohm reading if dropped on the floor. After that I've run a Bosch blue coil for the past couple of years. Maybe the epoxy filled Bosch is more resistant to vibrations? Don't know.

CJD
12-24-2017, 05:49 PM
I’ve been waiting for a situation like yours to try out one of these oscilloscopes I’ve been restoring. If it persists, I might have to send you one to see what the current is doing during the misses. Of course the likely cause is too much good weather...it’s 36 degrees here in Texas!

Before you replace the coil again, I might suggest taking the air cleaners off and looking in the carb throats while the engine runs to see if fuel is overflowing around the needle in spurts and flooding the engine slightly.

Merry Tropical Christmas!

mastaphixa
12-24-2017, 06:32 PM
The TR3 I work on for friend has a Crane XR700 electronic ignition and the coil on that car gets alarmingly hot. I have checked and it measures 4 ohms so the internal resistance is right. We've had no problems, but I put a spare in the car just to make sure no one gets stranded.

Geo Hahn
12-24-2017, 07:53 PM
...could be brought back to the correct ohm reading if dropped on the floor...

Can I do this at home or do I need to come over and drop it on your floor?

I do recall a number of years when the Lucas Sports Coils were prone to early failure. I thought (or it seemed) we got past that - but perhaps it has recurred.

JohnnyMead
12-25-2017, 10:07 AM
You don't need my floor to perform a "drop test" George, just carry too many parts at the same time, or if a part is too heavy just trip over it while carrying another part.
Merry Christmas everybody!
john

sp53
12-26-2017, 10:42 AM
I have an older Saab 1989 that still uses a coil plus I acquired some extra Bosh coils over the years for it and never really thought about using one. Anyways they are Bosh coils, and I have heard Randall explain this 10 times, but I spaced. How do I check the ohms again to see if they are ok for a tr3? They are probably too new, but still wondering.
Steve

poolboy
12-26-2017, 11:12 AM
Here's a couple of videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKWsI2vNxPs&list=PL203268D84EE9ADD8&index=35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec7gSyVrh4g&list=PL203268D84EE9ADD8&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJYJ3KvPhhY&list=PL203268D84EE9ADD8&index=34 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec7gSyVrh4g&list=PL203268D84EE9ADD8&index=1)

Geo Hahn
12-26-2017, 02:45 PM
The non-video answer (relying on memory here) is that you want to see about 3 - 4 Ω across the 2 low-tension connectors.

If you see much lower, say, 1.5Ω then you can add an external resistor to make it suitable for the TR3.

2long
12-26-2017, 02:51 PM
Thanks for all the tips and thoughts! Much appreciated to be able to read the various ideas and comments. My "easy button" plan is to obtain an older original working coil from good 'ol Marv, swap out my new one and see if that fixes it. If it does not, I will have a couple of spare coils for my workshop and I will move on to the next thing to troubleshoot. I will also report back on the results.

Mahalo and aloha

Dan

TFB
12-26-2017, 03:55 PM
Thanks for all the tips and thoughts! Much appreciated to be able to read the various ideas and comments. My "easy button" plan is to obtain an older original working coil from good 'ol Marv, swap out my new one and see if that fixes it. If it does not, I will have a couple of spare coils for my workshop and I will move on to the next thing to troubleshoot. I will also report back on the results.

Mahalo and aloha

Dan

I am surprised you are concentrating on the coil when the op said it ran ok for awhile after cleaning the points.I have point files to dresss points but they only get used on platinum nla points in magnetos.I never try to restore a set of inexpensive points,(unless its an emergency)just start with a new set and condenser and eliminate them as your problem.
Have Fun
Tom

2long
12-26-2017, 04:05 PM
Hey Tom - you may well be right about the points, but it just seemed illogical that the points would be the problem if I had just filed them. The intermittent smooth running and rough running popped up even after I cleaned the points. However, popping in new points and condenser may well be the easiest first thing to do, so I appreciate the input.

Dan

poolboy
12-26-2017, 04:44 PM
If you filed the points...perhaps there is now insufficient dwell time.

sp53
12-27-2017, 11:45 AM
Much appreciated Geo, but I have to say I thought it would have been the opposite way around; the tr3 taking the 1.5 ohms. Then again I flip stuff around like numbers sometimes, and the old I get the more I can see it and sometimes catch it, but it is difficult when it makes sense. Perhaps that is why I have a tr3. Something is always needing attention and it does not bother me much; it make sense. If it is true something wrong then incorrect is true.

TR3driver
12-27-2017, 01:49 PM
Nope, that's right, the TR3 takes a higher resistance coil; because it does not have a separate resistance in the circuit. The external resistor was common on American cars (which is why 3 ohm coils are harder to find); but Triumph (and VW) didn't get the memo until much later.

I'll agree, the OP's problem doesn't sound like a coil problem to me. But I took the question to be whether it was possible a new coil was defective, and I'm always suspicious of new parts.

To me, the problem sounds more like a bad connection somewhere, like maybe one of the leads inside the dizzy is broken internally.

bobhustead
12-27-2017, 05:00 PM
NEVER fail to suspect a condenser in intermittent ignition problems.
Bob

Daves1957TR-3
12-27-2017, 08:02 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6

So very true.

NutmegCT
12-27-2017, 08:11 PM
So ... did we ever learn the why the original coil was replaced? Are the symptoms with the new Sport coil the same as with the old coil?

I'm still not sure why we're concentrating on the coil and/or condenser, as we don't know the problems before and after the coil was replaced. (I'm thinking a loose wire in the distributor ...).

TM

2long
12-27-2017, 09:59 PM
I did not mean to leave out details about the original coil, and that may not even be the issue causing my problem, as some of you recognize. The original coil was replaced when the car began running poorly, and then stopped, and then there was no spark at the points. When I changed the coil and cleaned the points, the car started up and ran smooth for about 10 miles, and then sputtered going up a hill to my home. Then it started up the next day and ran pretty smooth, so I took it for a run, and it ran fine and then 5 miles out it sputtered and left me curbside. So I thought it was the coil I put in. I am doing the best I can to sort this logically and economically. I do appreciate the input and I am learning as I go.

Dan

frankfast
12-28-2017, 07:11 AM
Never had a bad coil but have had a bad condenser and I suspect that is a more common problem. It reacted much as you've described. Worked for a bit until heated up and then sputtered.

sp53
12-28-2017, 10:00 AM
Try a different gas station 2long. It sounds simple, but it has happened to me a few times and given very similar symptoms.
steve

2long
01-27-2018, 08:13 PM
OK, the curse has been lifted. It turned out that my issue was a worn ignition switch. With my old original FA series ignition switch, the key was jiggling to a dead spot, aided by the key fob dangling near the gear change knob. In certain positions the key was in the right place, but just a little off one way or another was a poor connection spot that caused the intermittent current. What an odyssey sorting that out! I thought the TR gods were punishing me for spending so much time getting the Doretti going, and maybe they were. Just removing the fob pretty much fixes the thing by taking away the weight and jostling of the fob. However, I think a new switch is in order, but I sure wish I could get an FA coded one! Any leads?

Dan

CJD
01-27-2018, 11:05 PM
Glad you figured it out! Worst case you can swap the original core into a new switch assembly.

TR3driver
01-28-2018, 02:26 AM
Can you swap your old cylinder into a new housing? If that doesn't work, you should be able to drill out the rivets and transfer the new switch onto the old lock. Since it's hidden behind the dash, I just replaced the rivets with short round-head screws and nuts.
https://i.imgur.com/zttnhya.jpg

6TTR3A
01-28-2018, 03:11 PM
Dan,
Look for my email.
Frank Conklin

sp53
01-29-2018, 01:02 PM
Glad you reported back 2Long so often people never let the forum know. Plus I remember, I had that problem back in 1993. I remember because of the girl I had with me. Plus I let her get away, but not the car

2long
01-30-2018, 12:10 AM
"I had that problem back in 1993. I remember because of the girl I had with me. Plus I let her get away, but not the car"

Great story! I had a pretty good one with this recent issue. I thought I had the issue licked with the cleaned points, so I took my sister for a cruise and ended up stranded roadside with her. But the car community came through, as I called a friend and he showed up, but not before at least two other folks stopped by with their thoughts and suggestions. One dude even gave me a tow strap that my friend and I used to pull the car back to my home, up a steep hill (extinct volcano). On the way up the hill, the tow strap broke because it was really a come-along strap not designed for more that 2,000 pounds. But driving behind me was a big old truck with an off-duty fireman driving, who stopped with me and loaned me a much beefier tow strap, which his fireman friend had made from electrical cable sheathing. My sister was blown away at all the fuss and help!

Cheers

Dan

CJD
01-30-2018, 10:44 AM
Yep, these little cars attract just about everyone!

I did have one time the TR3 started running poorly and dying intermittently. It turned out the main power supply wire into the ignition switch had loosened under the set screw over time. I've started tinning the ends of the wires with solder and have not had any more trouble. No women were envolved, though...bummer.