PDA

View Full Version : TR4/4A TR4 A Comission Numbers?



MintyFresh
01-27-2016, 08:45 PM
Can anyone suggest where I can find an accurate resource for these numbers? Mine was sold to me as a 67', but I think it might actually be a 66'. The number is CTC 70414L. Any insight from you guys would be very helpful.

Thanks,

Mark

Geo Hahn
01-27-2016, 09:09 PM
You could look at some nearby entries here: https://trregistry.com/start/registry/html/TR4/index.htm

Some entries have build dates & despatch dates.

Of course, all questions would be answered by obtaining a BMIHT build certificate.

TR3driver
01-27-2016, 11:08 PM
Bill Piggott gives CTC75172 as the first car built in 1967, but of course anything built from October 66 onward would probably have been sold as a 67 model.

Even earlier cars might have been sold as 67 models, if the sale happened in Oct 66 or later. The dealers always sold them as current year, no matter how long they sat on the lot. Usually in the US for cars sold between 60 and 67, there would be an 'STC' tag affixed somewhere to show the updated model year.
https://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh260/TR3driver/Misc%20parts/STCcloseup.jpg~original

Geo Hahn
01-27-2016, 11:55 PM
Mine was built in September 1964 but registered as a '65. When I registered it after purchase I persuaded the MVD to change it to a 1964 on the title. I showed them something -- possibly the Piggott book (did not have a build certificate at that point).

I mention this as a possible option if you want it, for some reason, to be a '66 instead of a '67. I wanted mine to be a '64 because I was getting a year of manufacture plate and 1964 was a plate year in AZ, 65 plates were just a sticker on a 64 plate.

JerryVV
01-28-2016, 08:12 AM
CTC69150L was built in May 66 so it's a good chance yours was built in 66.

Andrew Mace
01-28-2016, 01:47 PM
Mine was built in September 1964 but registered as a '65. When I registered it after purchase I persuaded the MVD to change it to a 1964 on the title. I showed them something -- possibly the Piggott book (did not have a build certificate at that point).Perhaps NY has their bureaucracy "down pat" better than AZ does? I tried -- using some pretty good documentation that included one of their own-issue registrations for a similar car and some authoritative books -- to convince NY's DMV that my Triumph Sports 1200 convertible was a 1967 model and not the 1964 that appeared on the registration.* It finally took a copy of the BMIHT build certificate to get them to relent!

*I can only assume that, many years ago, someone did come clever runarounds to get the car to appear older in order to obtain classic insurance or something to that effect. No serial numbers or serial number plates on the car were changed or altered in any way. And there's no way that change of year could have happened at first registration!

Geo Hahn
01-28-2016, 02:00 PM
...*I can only assume that, many years ago, someone did come clever runarounds to get the car to appear older in order to obtain classic insurance or something to that effect...

In Arizona (and possibly other states) pre-1967 cars have always been exempt from emissions testing. Other exemptions for classics have since been put in place, but for many years 1967 was the watershed year for emissions.

fpstude
01-28-2016, 06:28 PM
For what it is worth, I just got my vehicle registration renewal notice, so I looked at my VIN number. It is CTC53760L. It is a '67 TR4A purchased in Septermber of 1966 in St. Louis, Missouri.

JerryVV
01-29-2016, 11:29 AM
For what it is worth, I just got my vehicle registration renewal notice, so I looked at my VIN number. It is CTC53760L. It is a '67 TR4A purchased in Septermber of 1966 in St. Louis, Missouri.

I don't believe your TR4A is a 67. My CTC69150L was built in May of 66 according to the Heritage Certificate I have, yours being 15,390 older than mine would lead me to believe it's a 65 or early 66. I suggest you buy a Heritage Certificate to confirm. Respectfully, JVV

Vila
01-30-2016, 02:24 PM
One free source for what year each TR4A Commission Number should be is one the first few pages following the A pages of the Moss TR2, 3, and 4 catalogue. The British Motor Industry Heritage Trust certificate also show the exact date a TR was manufactured in addition to other interesting fact about the car. The trust certificate currently costs 55 pounds, which is approximately $80 at the current exchange rate.

https://www.heritage-motor-centre.co.uk/archive-services/

The reason many cars were registered as the wrong year is that many states used to register car as the year it was first sold and not the year it was manufactured. A possible reason for a car being listed on the title as a year earlier then its actual year is that new year models for most american cars built back in the 1960s came out in September of the previous year.

Moss lists CTC 70414L as a 1966.

Moss lists the following year for each TR4A Commission Number range:

1965: CTC50001 - CTC63736 (approx.)
1966: CTC63737 (approx.) - CTC75000 (approx.)
1967: CTC75001 Approx.) - CTC78684 (July)

MintyFresh
01-30-2016, 07:12 PM
Villa, Thanks for clarifying. I'll probably spring for the trust cert. But now I have to break the news to her... She is older than we thought. :)

Lou Metelko
01-30-2016, 09:57 PM
To clarify the ending numbers for the 1965 TR4A, my 4A was built on December 30, 1965 with a commission number of CTC64139L (per BHIMT).

Lou Metelko
Auburn, Indiana

nicodiaz
01-31-2016, 03:06 AM
Mine was sold as a 1966, TR 4a. Its name plate by the clutch reservoir says CTC53788L 19...H11. Yes, 19 blank H11

Geo Hahn
01-31-2016, 04:03 PM
... Yes, 19 blank H11

Those numbers are the exterior color and the interior color and material.

19 = White (exterior)
11 = Black (interior)
H = Hyde (leather)

The black print on a commission plate often disappears - esp when it is located where it is vulnerable to brake fluid. All you're left with then are some stamped letters and numbers.

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/TR4/CommissionOriginal.jpg

fpstude
01-31-2016, 04:12 PM
Thanks for the good information provided by JerryVV and Vila. I was all set for a 50th birthday party this coming fall, but the opportunity is passed. I will be obtaining a Heritage Certificate on the car. I didn't know about them.

https://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p276/fpstude/TR4A%20Invoice%20001%20copy_zps3jyaqokx.jpg (https://s130.photobucket.com/user/fpstude/media/TR4A%20Invoice%20001%20copy_zps3jyaqokx.jpg.html)

This is the actual sales invoice on the car when new. One would think there was something fishy going on along the Mississippi River. This could have been the standard policy back in those times. Cars were registered when sold, not when built by model year. I guess the car spent the first couple years of its life sitting on a dock along the river.