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TomMull
07-08-2015, 12:46 PM
My 55 year old water pump seems to have a flat spot so have decided to repair or replace. Found a repair kit on eBay for $79. Not an option. I'm pretty sure I can get a bearing but not so sure about packing/ seal. Anybody got a source? It would be nice to keep the original style.
Looks like the commercial re-builders get $150+++.
I did try a Ferguson Tractor supply and found no kit but they did have a new pump ("aftermarket"). The listing said Ferguson tractor with Standard 85mm gas engine. Sounds right but the thing will not be easily returnable. Price was right, though, at $42.
The usual sources are have pumps that start at about twice that. Any other sources? Suggestions?
I've not much interest in "upgraded pumps".
Tom

TR3driver
07-08-2015, 01:10 PM
You might want to double-check that bearing before putting a lot of work into finding a seal. We had a discussion many years ago that said basically the bearing was obsolete even when the cars were new, and no one made them that size any more. As I recall, the consensus was to machine the housing oversize to accept an available bearing (and apparently many replacement housings do take a modern bearing).

TRF has the stock pump listed on sale for $67. Seems to work fine for me.

Some of the aftermarket pumps have permanently attached pulleys, which means you have to substitute a stud for the bolt. No big deal, just a bit more hassle. The permanent pulley is an improvement though (IMO), so I would have bought another if I found one. The previous aftermarket pump lasted me some 20 years before the seal finally gave out, while the pulley worked loose in just a few thousand miles on the original pump I put in it's place. If you do use the original style removable pulley, make sure it fits tightly on the shaft, as the nut alone isn't enough. I added some Loctite just for insurance.

Lukens
07-08-2015, 02:00 PM
[QUOTE=TR3driver;985870]
TRF has the stock pump listed on sale for $67. Seems to work fine for me.
QUOTE]

Installed this pump 6 months ago. Works for me

tomshobby
07-08-2015, 03:27 PM
8 or 9 years ago when I did the pump on my TR6 there seemed to be a problem finding dependable pumps. For a few reasons I wanted to repair my original pump.
I did a lot of searching and finally found John Crane, Inc, which is a company that produces seals. I talked at length to one of their technical reps, who recommend the Harold Bishop's HDRK CO, INC. IN Albany, Indiana. (765) 789-4406. I called Harold and gave him the measurements I made for my TR6 pump. Harold had both the seal and bearing/shaft in stock and I had them in a couple days. I add that Harold knows his stuff and was eager to share his knowledge.

CJD
07-08-2015, 06:09 PM
I went through 5 pumps this year to get one good for a rebuild. I saw that rebuild kit, but noticed it doesn't include the shaft. Out of my 5 pumps, I only had one decent shaft! I don't know if the bearing will fit or not. The seal is available from Victoria British.

vivdownunder
07-08-2015, 09:05 PM
Tom, if the Ferguson tractor water pump is a BAREco product B4845 ex their CA warehouse, you can rely on the quality. BAREco owner is the long time custodian of a supercharged TR3 and a life member of TR Register Australia.

Also, the BAREco Ferguson tractor crankshaft for under $300 (here) works very well in a TR.

Just advising - no commercial interest.

Viv

TR3driver
07-08-2015, 09:55 PM
Also, the BAREco Ferguson tractor crankshaft for under $300 (here) works very well in a TR.

Does it have the scroll for the rear main seal? I understood the tractor motors didn't have it.

vivdownunder
07-08-2015, 10:09 PM
These are the seals supplied and the link shows the various tractor crankshafts. Need to check but some owners using the BAREco crank may have fitted the updated Marx rear seal.

https://www.bareco.com.au/files-masseY2001-mF37

Viv

TR3driver
07-08-2015, 11:45 PM
You can color me confused. I only see listings for a TE20 (and some later variants), but my understand is that the Standard engine wasn't introduced until the TEA20 (which is not listed). The original TE20 had a wet liner Continental Z120 engine (supposedly because the Standard engine wasn't ready yet). The same crankshaft (B8650) seems to be also be listed for a MF35, which I understood was never supplied with the Standard engine, but sometimes used a Continental Z135.

Can you sort me out, please? Surely the Continental crank doesn't fit a TR3 ??

Geo Hahn
07-09-2015, 05:06 PM
Tom, if the Ferguson tractor water pump is a BAREco product B4845 ex their CA warehouse, you can rely on the quality...

Would a Ferguson pump work w/o modification? I seem to recall that the fan was mounted to the water pump on those. Not sure though and if it was not sure if it was just a different pulley or something else.

Any, 67 bucks from TRF sounds pretty tempting.

TomMull
07-09-2015, 08:04 PM
Would a Ferguson pump work w/o modification? I seem to recall that the fan was mounted to the water pump on those. Not sure though and if it was not sure if it was just a different pulley or something else.

Any, 67 bucks from TRF sounds pretty tempting.

Can't answer that. However, the BAREco B4845 replaces several Ferguson numbers and the image, sans pulley' looks identical to the TR pump. I also have no way of knowing if the pump I found from Yesterdays Tractor Co. is the same as the BAREco. I may order one to see what I get.
Also agree on the TRF pump, 67 bucks and quite sure it will fit and work.
Thanks to all for the other informative comments, including the lead to Harold Bishop's HDRK CO, INC. IN Albany, Indiana from tomshobby.
Tom

sp53
07-10-2015, 08:18 AM
Tom I am really interested in that Water Pump from Bare-co so please let the forum know plus the call to Harold will be worth it.

TomMull
07-10-2015, 11:42 AM
Tom I am really interested in that Water Pump from Bare-co so please let the forum know plus the call to Harold will be worth it.
The one I sourced was from Yesterday's Tractor Co. https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Massey-Ferguson-Tractor-Parts/Water-Pump.html I spoke with them today and asked about the $42 pump. They said it was manufactured "over seas" and had a cast iron impeller. I wonder if TRF's pump is the same? At any rate, it does not seem to be Bareco. Apparently, one needs a membership login to get a price from Bareco directly.
Tom

Marvin Gruber
07-11-2015, 10:45 AM
Tom,
please do let us know how it works out. I just used my last spare yesterday so I could stand to buy a couple.

marv

TexasKnucklehead
07-11-2015, 12:46 PM
I wasted a lot of time trying to rebuild a water pump from a box full of different pumps. The seal I got from VB didn't work either way I installed it. I purchased a new pump and it's been working fine. I was surprised how many different pumps were used -possibly replacements, but the shafts/pulleys/bearings/internals are not interchangeable.

TomMull
07-11-2015, 01:23 PM
Marv, I ordered the Ferguson pump. Will post pictures and measurements etc when it come in. Cost $53 with shipping.

TexasKnucklehead, yes, the internals can be quite different even if the outside looks the same and that makes getting kits difficult. In addition, the Far east knockoffs are so cheap that few suppliers carry the kit's anymore.

Tom

TomMull
07-16-2015, 11:07 AM
I've received the Ferguson pump. It turns out that Geo Hahn's comment was exactly right, the shaft and pulley are different as the fan on the tractor is on the pump. The shaft is 3/4 of an inch longer on the Ferguson pump. The shaft is machined for a woodruff key as the Triumph and also for a locking pin and a flat for a set screw. Everything else appears identical. To make it work, one would need the Ferguson pulley also, a bit too much modification for me, and not I'm not absolutely sure that would do it. Looks like back to TRF. Tom
https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcf/attachment.php?attachmentid=38314&stc=1
https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcf/attachment.php?attachmentid=38320&stc=1
https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcf/attachment.php?attachmentid=38312&stc=1

CJD
07-16-2015, 11:13 AM
Now we all know...thanks for being the one to check it out.