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#620476 - 10/29/09 10:56 PM Re: oil in my cylinder [Re: doughairfield]
bgbassplyr Online   content
Jedi Knight

Registered: 01/16/09
Posts: 1198
Loc: Charlotte, NC
I should have noticed earlier, but don't rotate the crank until you have locke the liners down. If they move, they will break the seal at the bottom where they interface with the block and will have to be pulled and re-sealed.
_________________________
LBC's previously owned:
2 '59 TR3As, 1 Driven, 1 raced in '64
'61 & '68 Corvairs, both 4 carb (non LBC)
Sunbeam Alpine (former wife loved it)
Volvo 122S (non LBC)
'46 MGTC 0442
'62 Sprite (racer)
Currently owned:
'62 TR4 (CT5586 L) bought 1990, stored until 2008, now undergoing refurbish for a driver.

Jim Browne

A legend in my spare time.
I started with nothing and still have most of it.

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#621697 - 11/03/09 08:23 AM Re: oil in my cylinder [Re: doughairfield]
doughairfield Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 119
Loc: Cary NC, USA
Got the report back for the head. Pressure check was good and no cracks. The valve guides need to be replaced along with the springs, mine takes the triple spring setup. Of course I have a few questions:

Is it worth it to get the manganese-bronze type valve guide or the stock valve guides?

The machine shop said there were o-ring seals on the valves, is that the same as the part called the "Collar?"
_________________________
Doug Hairfield
-------------------------------
1964 Triumph TR4 (awaiting engine rebuild)

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#621760 - 11/03/09 11:43 AM Re: oil in my cylinder [Re: doughairfield]
TR3driver Offline
Yoda

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: Sunny So California
Originally Posted By: doughairfield
Is it worth it to get the manganese-bronze type valve guide or the stock valve guides?
IMO, no. In theory they last longer, but in practice they must be reamed oversize because the bronze expands faster with heat than the cast iron head does (causing them to close up when they get hot).
Quote:
The machine shop said there were o-ring seals on the valves, is that the same as the part called the "Collar?"
No, I don't believe so. Those would be aftermarket seals that someone has added, presumably only on the intake guides (in an attempt to reduce oil burning). The "collars" go on the exhaust valves only, and provide a stepped seat for the inner valve springs (which are shorter than the outside springs).

The added seals can be useful for racing (where longevity is not an issue), or as a band-aid on engines that are already badly worn (BTDT). But in general I feel they are a poor idea, as they keep too much oil away from the stems & guides, which causes them to wear quicker.

The factory setup will easily last 100,000 miles, by which time it will need a ring job, too.
_________________________
Randall
59 TR3A TS39781LO (now totaled frown )
56 TR3 TS13571L current project
71 Stag LE1473L waiting engine rebuild
71 Stag LE2013LBW waiting gearbox rebuild

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#622260 - 11/04/09 09:14 PM Re: oil in my cylinder [Re: doughairfield]
AltaKnight Offline

Silver Member
Jedi Knight

Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 834
Loc: Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada...
Doug...
I'm still concerned that there might be ring damage causing some of that oil in the cylinder; I didn't think that there was enough oil flowing around the intake valve stem area to result in that much getting sucked into the cylinder.
There's enough oil burn't onto the cylinder head to make me ruminate on what condition the oil control ring is in. You indicated you were planning to pull the engine and check the rings, are you still doing that? It would be a heck of a shame to have to strip the head back off to change the rings after boxing it back up again.
_________________________
Cheers, Graham

'73 TR6 "Olive Oyl"
'03 Porsche Boxster

If I had it to do all over again .... I probably would!

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#623383 - 11/08/09 09:33 PM Re: oil in my cylinder [Re: AltaKnight]
doughairfield Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 119
Loc: Cary NC, USA
yes, I"m actually in the process of getting the engine completely taken apart. I agree that with all that oil in there the head may not be the only culprit. I've got the engine on the stand but I'm having a heck of a time getting the screws started on the sealing block in the front and getting the cover off to expose the timing gears. I've got all the bolts out but it's like the cover is glued on.

I'm going to just lift the crank and pistons out through the bottom since I have the block upside down and take the block, crank and pistons to the machine shop this week. I'll let you know how it goes.
_________________________
Doug Hairfield
-------------------------------
1964 Triumph TR4 (awaiting engine rebuild)

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#623447 - 11/09/09 08:49 AM Re: oil in my cylinder [Re: doughairfield]
TR4nut Offline

Silver Member
Luke Skywalker

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 1985
Loc: Katy, Texas
Doug - don't forget that one nyloc nut that runs right through the center of the cover - I pulled all the peripheral bolts and had the same issue until I realized I hadn't pulled that center nut off.
_________________________
Randy
64 TR4 runner
59 TR3A project

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#624206 - 11/12/09 08:04 AM Re: oil in my cylinder [Re: TR4nut]
doughairfield Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 119
Loc: Cary NC, USA
I finally got it off, they used plenty of RTV to secure it in it's previous life.

Got the crank and pistons out last night too. I think i'm going to have to replace the cylinder liners. Once I got the crank and pistons out, I was able to see a big chunk of the line for #2 missing where the liner extends past where it's pressed into the block.

This is turning into a total motor rebuild.
_________________________
Doug Hairfield
-------------------------------
1964 Triumph TR4 (awaiting engine rebuild)

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#624289 - 11/12/09 02:01 PM Re: oil in my cylinder [Re: doughairfield]
bgbassplyr Online   content
Jedi Knight

Registered: 01/16/09
Posts: 1198
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Unless you found that chunk or pieces of it in the pan, then PO probably installed it that way. Should be ok to continue to use it as long as bore is not tapered or scarred as there is no load on the liner at this point.
Others tell me if I'm wrong.
_________________________
LBC's previously owned:
2 '59 TR3As, 1 Driven, 1 raced in '64
'61 & '68 Corvairs, both 4 carb (non LBC)
Sunbeam Alpine (former wife loved it)
Volvo 122S (non LBC)
'46 MGTC 0442
'62 Sprite (racer)
Currently owned:
'62 TR4 (CT5586 L) bought 1990, stored until 2008, now undergoing refurbish for a driver.

Jim Browne

A legend in my spare time.
I started with nothing and still have most of it.

Top
#624398 - 11/12/09 08:53 PM Re: oil in my cylinder [Re: bgbassplyr]
AltaKnight Offline

Silver Member
Jedi Knight

Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 834
Loc: Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada...
Any pictures Doug?
_________________________
Cheers, Graham

'73 TR6 "Olive Oyl"
'03 Porsche Boxster

If I had it to do all over again .... I probably would!

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#625544 - 11/17/09 08:35 PM Re: oil in my cylinder [Re: AltaKnight]
doughairfield Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 119
Loc: Cary NC, USA
sorry for my tardy reply, had a lot on my plate recently.

I took a pic of the block since I've gotten it all torn down, number 2 cylinder liner is missing a chunk. I assume I"ll have to replace all 4 and new pistons.


Attachments
Liner.jpg


_________________________
Doug Hairfield
-------------------------------
1964 Triumph TR4 (awaiting engine rebuild)

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#625546 - 11/17/09 08:47 PM Re: oil in my cylinder [Re: doughairfield]
startech47 Offline
Jedi Warrior

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 669
Loc: va
Is the skirt of the piston scarred where it passed over the missing chunk?

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#625556 - 11/17/09 09:03 PM Re: oil in my cylinder [Re: startech47]
TOC Offline

Silver Member
Jedi Knight

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 817
Loc: Kirkland, Wash., USA
Like he said, is the piston skirt worn in that area?
If not, leave it alone.
If it is, and budget does not allow sleeves and slugs, pull that sleeve, rotate 90 degrees (if my foggy old gray cells serve me, the notches on the sides of the sleeves allow 90 degree rotation) and re-seal that sleeve.
The "chip" will then not be in a skirt contact area.

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#625603 - 11/17/09 11:44 PM Re: oil in my cylinder [Re: TOC]
Tr4dude Offline
Freshman Member

Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 15
Loc: So Cal
also if you use it chamfer the sharp inner edge and smooth it out to avoid any future piston scarring or cracking.
_________________________
1974 Tr6 under resto
1962 Tr4 Surrey CT7080LO

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#625718 - 11/18/09 02:46 PM Re: oil in my cylinder [Re: Tr4dude]
Brosky Offline

Gold Member
Yoda

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 9384
Loc: S.E. MASS - USA
Look at it carefully to make sure there is no stress crack rising from the chip. It could come out in two pieces.
_________________________
Paul Rego
S.E. MASS - USA
1974 TR-6
Mimosa & Chestnut

My TR6 Resto-Mod Project

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#625720 - 11/18/09 02:48 PM Re: oil in my cylinder [Re: Brosky]
doughairfield Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 119
Loc: Cary NC, USA
I'll check both tonight when I get home and send a pic of the piston. Thanks for the insight.
_________________________
Doug Hairfield
-------------------------------
1964 Triumph TR4 (awaiting engine rebuild)

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