When I looked under the hood of my new 65 MG Midget I found the battery was cabled pos.2pos. and neg2neg. I was assuming it should be postive ground car. So if it is a postive ground car what damage has been done,

It has been hooked up that way for years. I have notice alot of wires pulled from under dash. Also if it has been changed over to the american way how can you tell?

I can't say if it' a + ground car or not and I don't know when they went to the "regular" way( I know nothing about eletrical on a '65), but I have accidently hook up batties backwards. If caught quickly, no harm done.

If you didn't get lots of sparks, smells, noises or smoke, I wouldn't worry too much right now.

I inherited my grandmother's (actually my mom's) '68 bug and my uncle or father put new cables on it at one point in time, but + was black and - was red. Needless to say I found out REALLY quick that someone wasn't right when I hooked up my nice, hot battery.

I guess they were on sale at the time and color didn't matter. THANKS UNK !!!


Note: I haven't hooked up one of these back'ards.

The car really won't care about polairity it has been running assuming that everything was converted over - generator polarized etc.

But running positive earth won't impact longevity of anything.

Does it run like that / have you seen it run with the current grounding?

Tach would be messed up. Fuel gauge might be. Generator must have been repolarized or it wouldn't have run long. Negative ground isn't "american way" I don't think, it's just what was eventually standardized to, maybe here earlier then England. I converted mine to negative ground last winter just to make life easier with stereo and pointless ignition, the emergency jump start, any other "add on's" down the road. Switching the tach over is the only 'hard part' and even that wasn't a big deal. I don't think anything is polarity sensitive other than the tach, the heater motor doesn't seem to care. I was convinced the heater wasn't blowing as hard after the conversion so I switched it's leads around but can't tell a lick of difference.

Just purchased the car that has been sitting for a couple of year. and ready to charge battery and go through a crank up and start process.

just didn't know if previous owner may have damaged regulator/generator/starting system if battery was installed backwards

I'm not sure when the switch to negative ground took place, but a quick check of the wiring diagrams in my Haynes manual doesn't show negative ground until the Mark III Midget/Mark IV Sprite. In any case, if you car is running negative ground, presumably it's been converted. If the car has been run that way, it's obviously OK. So, it's water over the dam at this point. Sounds like your concern is that it never was converted but that maybe some lemuel hooked it up negative ground and left it that way.

As for negative-ground conversions--the regulator, generator, starter and so on won't be affected. Yes, it's best to repolarize the generator when you switch from positive to negative ground, but it's likely that you won't notice it if you don't. The current leaking into the field coils from the ignition idiot light will probably be enough to get the generator started right, and once it's running with the proper output polarity, it will magnetize itself in that polarity. Just to be safe, you might want to do the polarization. It's easy.

An electronic tachometer won't work if it were set up for positive ground, but there's an even chance you wouldn't have blown anything. The fuel gauge should be OK. I'm not sure about the wiper motor--if it has a field coil, it won't matter; if it doesn't, it will run backward but that might not matter. It's a good idea to reverse the coil primary leads when converting, which might or might not have been done, but the car probably will run OK even if this is neglected.

Thre's probably something else I haven't thought of--but all in all I don't think you have much to worry about.

Well I just found out it is not a 1965 but a 1967, I will research the date they change from positive ground

Changed in '68. It would be a negative earth car from England, but who knows what's actually been done since then... If it has a generator and OE stuff, not much other than the tach would care. I'd be for hookin' it up positive earth and seein' if the tach registers anything realistic. Then convert it later to negative earth to be able to live with it in the 21st century.

Why change it at all?
Unless you want a stereo or an alternator.
Leave it alone.

My Fords are ALL positive ground, and one thing about positive grounding, external battery corrosion in minimized.
Heck, I learned that back in the early 60's.

In 40 years, I think I've cleaned my cables three times on the flatmotors.
On negative ground, we change the cables every 3-4 years.

I am going to step into something that I will regret but I think that Drew is right that it is not a '65 but I am beginning to believe that it is a '73 or so (split bumpers).
With a common ruler, what diameter is the face of the speedo /tach? Or more easily, show us a picture of the dash.
Bill

not areal good photo

That dash shot puts the car at '68 or later. Can't remember when the round arch cars came in ('72?) -- that would be the upper limit. Forgot to look it up last night. Split bumpers would make it '70 - '72 I think. More knowledgable folks than me will chime in, I'm sure.

A good find, no matter the year.

You need to establish exactly what year the car is to start and then we can determine if it was originally a positive ground car and if so what to check for to see if it was converted to negative ground by a previous owner. Give us the first 4 didgets of the serial number located on the cowl behind the windshield and we can at least tell you what series it was to start with. If it's a GAN 4 or GAN 5 then it was most definitely a negative ground car from the factory.

I couldn't tell you what year it was if you ran over me with it. What makes me nervous is the fact it's not what was originally stated, nor does it appear to be what's on the title from what y'all are saying.

The dealer in me sends up a red flag when year of origin is undeterminable.
My concern at the moment is a swapped vin and "incorrect" title.

There should be a VIN plate riveted to the cowl just between the dash and the windshield, that's the number you need to determine what year it is.

Banjo steering wheel and padded dash - 68 or 69.

I will check dash vin # tonite but the vin on frame at engine is GANEL/44137

?? GANL3 44137 would be a late '65, that E in the VIN is surely a number? no? L stands for left hand drive I believe, for what this is worth
http://www.victoriabritish.com/icatalog/sm/full.aspx?Page=9

Sorry GAN3L 44137

Chassis sounds like a '65 then. Isn't the one on the frame the "important one"? Engine number doesn't matter, be interesting to see what the dash plate says I guess. Could easily be compilation of years at this point, many are.

Well so far I have:
1958 Bugeye trying to get title through Mechanics lien
1959 Bugeye sold as a 1958 title has engine number for vin# and motor been replaced so none of the numbers match
Now I have a MG Midget title has a 1967 with a 65,66 vin number, and body hardware from when ever. life is good !

Maybe someone built this like Johnny Cash did his Caddy, one piece at a time.

Try Broadway title in ALabama yet?

$150.

here ya go: http://www.broadwaytitle.com/

I went home last night to check out the vin# on top of the dash as you suggested, but my car doesn't have a vin # there.

I hate to say this:

It aint there for a reason I assure you. Don't panic, as there may still be some options to make it 100% legal.

Guys, is there anywhere else on the car that the VIN will be located? Prefereable a place where it's not removable.


It' still viable even if it's a worse case senario (unless stolen) as it can be parted out or a race car.

It might be ilegal to sell a car in your state w/o a VIN so you might have some recourse if you choose. Bare in mind the seller may not know the VIN is missing.

Relax, we'll figure something out.

It sorta depends -- the earlier cars only had the VIN on a plate on the front frame extensions, underneath where the carbs are. It's quite possible that this car is a mix of cars -- maybe an earlier body shell with some later appointments (bumper, dash, etc). Not uncommon with Spridgets.

As long as there's a good VIN plate at this location -- and it matches your title -- you should have no issues. As to the year on the title, well, those often don't match up. These cars were often title in the year sold, not the year made, so you're car could easily been a '66 sold first in '67. Not worth sweating it.

I'd agree, you're golden as far as the legalities of registering go, if there's only one VIN on the car, and it hasn't been tampered with and matches the inspectors "rule book" as to where it should be your all set, the car is a '65 as far as everyone is concerned, even if the only part that is from a '65 is the vin plate itself. As I understand it. I can't see why it matters really, clean title is the goal right? Does it matter to the government what "year" it is?
I guess we have it easy in Michigan, no one ever inspects or questions anything that I've ever heard. At least not the actual car, whatever is in the paper trail is all that matters here.
No emissions tests, nothing. I like it that way.

That's what I'm worried about.

according to frame tag it is a MKII.
It has wire wheels, need to see if it has full leaf springs

If car was sold in 1967 and dealer listed as a 1967 since that is when it was sold, that would explain the difference in years.

What year did they start putting vin # on top of the dash?

According to Horler you have a 1965 produced between August and December. You hould find a number stamped on the frame on the passenger side under the front lever shock. That should match your vin plate.

You do not have a 65 dash maybe early 70 so it definetly will not match the frame vin

Mark

Is the VIN on the dash or the cowl?

The VIN Plate on a 65 is a metal plate rivited to the frame left of the engine.
GAN3-36791 was the first car built in 65 and GAN3-45860 was the first car built in 66.

Mark

This is what I am thinking also,The page posted from Victoria British (p9) shows from my vin# the same information . 1965

I checked dash cowl no vin tag or evidence there ever was one, the metal plate on drivers side of frame is all I have, I will check under passenger side of front leve shock tonite.

The car has been repainted so I would assume some one just liked the looks of a split bumper and padded dash and intalled into car along the way

Agian when did they begin putting the Vin# on dash top?

does it match the title?

yes title and vin# match

If the VIN plate and title match, that's generally as far as it goes in these parts.
I know in other Marques, you can order out body plates, and get them stamped for all the information you have available for that VIN.
Do so, attach it with PROPER fasteners (the Gummint is often more interested in HOW it's attached than what it actually says) and end any body VIN confusion.

I think you have to supply and old vin plate as proof before they'll stamp you out another set. My buddy looked into it once for a GTO.

The Horler book has that change as January, 1969. Prior to that point the VIN plate was on the chassis rail below the carbs.

Thanks for that information, I checked the engine numbers 10CC-DA-H35818 which puts it in correct time frame for car vin# 1965/1966, strange the car has full length leaf springs, attached top with appear factory

How do you see that number? I looked last night but could not find any number looking down from the hood opening. Can you clarify where it is and where to you position yourself to see it?

My '63 has it under the carbs.

this is where I found mine also but they said near shock on PASSENGER side

ummm.... Is that possibly because it's written by an Englishman (Horler)?

now that makes since to me. I take that for problem solved

The number is actually stamped into the frame, under the right front lever shock, You may have a lot of grime covering it and it is painted. The VIN plate we are all refeering to is a metal tag attached to the frame rail on the driver side. As for the shocks they are full length on a 65 and the car was originally positive ground, I want to think 76 was the switch year. Either way it looks like someone converted your car possibly when they put in the newer dash, radio etc. Does the face of the tach say positive earth?
That can be changed as others have mentioned but I was wondering if maybe someone took a complete dash out of a later car and put into yours?

Mark

How about the possibility that it is a '73 that someone just screwed a '65 ID plate onto? Been done lots of times before (but I would NEVER have done it!!!)
BillM