And I quote from the Concourse Registry.

Fluid Leaks - No visible fluid leaks, or indications of fluid leaks, including oil leakes in engine, gearbox or rear axle, water from radiator cooling system, fluid from brake and clutch lines. or fuel from fuel lines or connections.


Wonder just how they expect that to happen and it is with the engine running of course.

What is the book you are quoting, Jack? Title, author, club affiliation?

Sounds like an oxymoron to me...most councours rules require that you drive onto the show field...now how do you do that with a dry engine, tranny, diff...???

Ray

PM Ray

I always thought Concours cars had to be perfectly original. In that case, every LBC should be required to leak like a stuck pig.

Jack - I want a copy of that publication...

My question is: does "concours" mean on the floor at the dealer's (ie: never run and no leaks) or after it has driven past the curb from the dealer's (ie: engine has started and is leaking)?
Bill

I my humble opinion Concours does not mean as delivered. It means everything perfect as can be done.

For example lots of our parts were painted by diping so had runs and such. No good for concours, should be polished, primed and a couple of coats of paint then something to make is shine for gloss.

Hehe, like Leos bits at the Loto.

Now, I see nothing wrong with that if you want musuem quality but for most of us it's just not our thing.

However, it is nice to have a reference for how it should be so you don't do something really stupid when the real thing even is easier.

My understanding of "concours" is that it is the "condidition in which the vehicle left the factory"! Normally, I would think a vehicle leaves the factory ready to be started and run, i.e. all fluids,etc.! Hopefully it would not be leaking at that point! (but with a LBC that may not neccessarily be true!)

If Concours is as it left the factory they would deduct points for over restorations ie paint, polish, etc.

I have seen restorers who have painstakingly made sure that the "correct" overspray on areas where that occured at the factory were reproduced faithfully, as well as grease-pencil notations (as on the back of Spridget dashes) are correct, sticker and labels as original, etc., etc., etc. in order to recreate that "as-left-the-factory" look!! Cars that are over-restored, while beautiful, are really more a tribute to the owner, not the car as originally produced!!

And besides, do you know how HARD it is to reproduce those factory paint runs?!?!

Also noted was that the stearing arms were red or yellow from the manufacture and diped in black at the assembly plant. They were held at the end with the guys fingers and some did not get all the red or yellow covered. In fact some were not painte on the end at all.

Another question answered.

And we all have heard the stories of Councours winners at Pebble Beach that had NO parts INSIDE the engine. Couldn't run if they HAD to. At least they've changed the rules there and the winner must start and run up to pick up the trophy. Leo's car, while beautiful and a tribute in its own right, was not councours, as he even went so far as to have all the philips head screws in the interior turned EXACTLY straight up and down! Factory workers just go for TIGHT. Unfortuantely, Councours has become synonymous for Over Restored. Thankfully, the value in our cars comes from DRIVING them, not looking at and inspecting them.. Who amoung us would rather DRIVE a stock 948, drum braked BE, with bias play tires and smooth case tranny, than a disk brake converted, breathed on 1275/1380, 5 speed with radials........

But as with anything else in the Automotive world, ...To each his own... do what makes YOU happy and to he^% with what anyone else says, wants or expects. IT YOUR CAR!

Jack - does it differentiate between the 2 factories? MG & Sprite? MG did things differently so those cars have a different concours standard (i.e., painting transmission)

This one is for Austin Healey Sprites.

Agree Bill, but it is neat to read how they came and know what is right and what is PDO.

Then I need one for Midgets!

Aye

I'm sorry I like my pertronix dizzy and the alternator my disk brakes my 5 speed the carpet, radial's tires ,DOT 3# fluid, rear oil, seal front oil seal, harmonic balancer, seat belts, front sway bar. Sure I can respect and appereate a concourse car but its not for me. I like jumping in and just going.
This morning hopped in and had coffee with a bunch of other car nuts at a local resturant like we do every Saturday morning.Sort a mini show bring what you drive. Rolls Ferrarri TVR MG TC Muscle cars you name it.Never know what may showup.

Last Night We jumped in and Grabed a coke at Sonic drove over to a side road pulled of an approch in to the grass and enjoyed the 4th july fireworks.
If I had a concourse just that manuver would be a weeks worth of show prep.
Geez I would probley scraped off an Unabtaneum sticker!Or scratch a lower A arm on a blade of grass completyly ruining the show season.!

On the other hand I wiped off all the visible oil leaks...

It depends on the judges and what guidelines they use, but YES, I have seen deductions for "over restorations". I lost points for a stainless exhaust...didn't come that way from the factory. With American muscle and especially Corvettes (NCRS) you will definitely lose points if there is not overspray where there should be and for clear coat where inappropriate..

There are exceptions to the "factory" specification, at least there was at the NAMGBR Concours at MG2006. In particular, there are allowances for "dealer options" such as ash trays, consoles, mirrors (externals were dealer installed), and even wheels and tires...IF they are period correct and available through the dealer network.

I participated in only one Coucours event but learned a lot. There were some items that I knew I would take pointc deductions on, such as the Rivergate 5-speed conversion. Though the shift knob, lever, and boot were all stock, they docked me on under-bonnet points for the billet adapter plate and bell housing. I found out during the evaluation and later on the scoring form that I had repro clear back-up lenses; I didn't know that previously. A couple weeks later a NOS pair showed up on Ebay with the appropriate "Lucas" lettering and patent number; they are now on my car...not because I intend to do another concours, but because it was an easy change back to stock without loss of function. I certainly wouldn't change out the 5-speed just for the sake of points, though some might.

Ray

I believe they came off the same Abingdon line, therefore fit and finish should be comparable with only trim options a variable. Other than the obvious things, like the chrome side/bonnet trim, and the badges, the only major difference I've noted has been in the markings on the backside of the dash indicating Sprite/Midget and whether it was an export car (different gauges, steering position, etc.).

Ray

NOTE: the following was taken from my '62 Sprite; notice the notation 'Sprite' marked on the radio knockout and the color 'Red'. There are other markings for gauges, etc.