I'm going to tackle my front springs this weekend, I was wondering... Is the Moss Major Suspension Kit something I might need?
When I look at all the parts included, most are way over my head, so can I get away with just replacing the springs and upper and lower bushings?
I have their front suspension poly bushings kit already, 4 upper and 8 lower, but am not exactly sure where they go either, some direction there would be helpful also, thanks.
Lastly, any thoughts on rear anti-sway bars? Where to get, how to mount?
Cheers!

Barry, there are a couple of items you may need, but you won't know until you get the suspension apart and check for wear. One is the upper trunion bolt, the other is the lower trunion pin and bushings. Excessive wear on those will require rebuilt or new A frames and pins. I don't know how far into the suspension you plan on going, if it's just a bushing and spring replacement then you won't have to remove the lower trunion, but you should check for wear there anyway when the spring tension is off. The inner A frame bushings should go in with the flanges to the outside, one bushing half on either side of the A frame pivot and then the steel sleeve inserted. Be sure to lubricate the bushing bore with a good silicon grease (should come with the bushings) and the inner bore of the sleeve with heavy duty grease to prevent it rusting to the bolt. The upper trunion bushing is installed in the same way, flanges to the outside. I like and recommend the "long bolt" method of removing the front springs rather than disconnecting the trunion and lowering the a arm on a jack. I think it's safer and less chance of damage to the brake hose etc. This method is described in the Haynes manual.
As for rear anti sway bars, unless your front bar is very stiff and your car is understeering badly I doubt if you need a rear bar. I've seen very few Spridgets with a rear bar, most rely only on a 3/4" front bar and seem very balanced with thoses. I do have a home made rear bar on my car, but also have the extra weight of the V6 up front. If you do run a rear bar it will probably be very small, less than 1/2" in diameter to achieve good balance. Photo of the front suspension with points to watch for posted here. http://www.flickr.com/photos/28194759N08/sets/72157605953004040/

I'll be home most of the weekend. If I can help answer any questions give me a call. 816-942-8099

Barry, great timing on this post as I'm facing the same issue. To me these front suspension rebuilds are like Pandora's box. I've never tackled one before. There's no telling what needs to be replaced until you get it torn down. I got a rough estimate (shop hasn't seen the car yet, but very familiar with Midgets) between $1,200-1,600 to do the job and that depended on what was worn.

I might try to tackle it myself, but I know it's going to be a real pain. If I do I've got to get a portable a/c unit for the garage so I can work out there.

Bill, I couldn't get to the photos.

Jim, copy the URL and then type in an @ sign between the 9 and the N and try it again. Disassembly of the front can be a real hassle, especially if the lower trunions are frozen or badly worn. I have a design for a tool to remove and install those but haven't made one up yet, a hex shaft chisel will do with the end ground to fit the slot in the pin. You can then use a wrench on the shaft to turn the trunion pin in or out.

That sounds steep to me. The most expensive part is the swivel axle king pin areas if they are worn, but a set of them is about $300 last time I checked and even new A arms are around $100 a piece, but you can sweat/braze new bushings into them and those are not that expensive. I guess it could run that High with new speings and shocks and all,but hopefully you don't need all that.

uhhh, i could buy an extra car for $1200!!! .......
do it ur self or find someone that isnt driving
a BMW! .....................z

I just completed a major suspension kit install last night. Big job but worth it. I purchased the kit from Moss because it is on sale. You should start taking apart the yolk and first and closely examine everything making notes as you do. I found the Kingpin bushings were a little worn but the big problem was the lower trunion pin. It had a 1/16 of play in the control arms. Rather than trying to remove the kingpin from the control arm I purchased rebuilt control arms from Apple Hydraulics and they fit perfectly. The cost $95 each with a $75 each core. Do not try to remove the lower trunion pin on the old arms as you may damage the arm and render it un-rebuildable. Apple will take the cores with the kinpin still installed. The rubber bushings in the control arm where it attaches to frame are probably destroyed as well.
As far as assembly instructions go, I printed a large exploded view from my MG handbook and took my time re-assembling everything. I even took the yolks, springs, dust shields and upper trunion to a place and had them chemical dipped to remove the 34 years of crap and then repainted. I checked the springs against the handbook and they were within spec. I installed a 3/4 sway bar and she handles better than my 2004 Toyota! Now I will rebuild the rear end as well. Please contact me if you have any more questions. You will not regret installing the Major Kit!

Thanks guys.
Now, these 'long bolts', I know they need to be at least 4.5" long, but does anyone know off the top of their heads what thread or diameter?
I'm at work and can pick them up on the way home.
Thanks for the illustration on the bushings Bill, big help.

However, looking at the picture, I would assume that there is a need for 8 bushings per side, I only have 6. 4 for the lower inner, 2 for the upper trunion, and 2 for the lower trunion.
It seems that my kit doesn't have the lower trunion bushings???? That in my mind would be the first to be replaced?

Barry,
You have a PM

Peter

Barry, there are no rubber or poly bushings for the lower trunion. I just ordered mine last night.

Baz,

As your drawing shows, the trunion pin threads into metal tubes (labeled above as 'bushings') that are brazed into the narrow end of the A-arm. They are not easily replaced, unless you are comfortable drilling them out and brazing in new ones. Typically, most of us would just buy rebuilt arms if the threads (bushings?) are shot.

The ones that come in your kit are, I assume, the rubber or poly bushings. Can be replaced fairly easily as part of the rebuild.

-D

The lower trunion bushings are steel threaded pieces brazed to the lower A arm using a special fixture to keep them in alignment and make sure the threads line up. There is no poly bushing there. The only bushings you can replace are the inner A frame bushings (4) and the upper trunion bushings (2). The lower trunion pin is a real work of art, a threaded pin with two different size threads one end smaller in diameter than the other. It's kept from rotating by a locking pin in the lower trunion on the kingpin which has a small nut on the bottom and then drives out. Usually stuck with rust and won't budge, swells when tapped and has to be driven out with a drift punch. Get new ones right from the start, you'll more than likely have to replace them and they're cheap. Then the lower trunion pin may turn out, note I say may! It also can be rusted tight and require some penetrating oil and perhaps some heat to get turning. At last resort you may have to saw it off on both ends and drive out the center piece on the bench. Hopefully it will be free and easy to remove. This is where the chisle comes in handy for a tool, the pin will have a hole in the center for a grease channel and two slots on the big end for a screwdriver or similar tool. It's a bear to keep the tool centered when the end of the pin starts to get past the bearing. That's where the tool I'm designing would come in handy. Made up from a piece of hex stock that's been center bored and a shaft the same size as the grease channel pressed in to keep the tool centered on the pin. Then you could use a ratchet and socket to turn it in or out.

Makes you realize how important a little maintenance is, just a little squirt of grease every once in a while and these things would last.

I got the bushing from apple for 8 bucks a set and brazed them in. Used the old fulcrum pin to keep alignment when brazing back in. One side of the pin is 1/2 and the other 9/16 with the same thread pitch to them. The pin turns in the thread and this is the pivot point, no shock absorption there, its held stiff.

I suspect my components are pretty well worn, and I should go ahead and budget for worst case scenario. Both tire tops point toward the shocks pretty severely. If I had to guess I'd say they're in by about 15 degrees...maybe more.
The "might as well's" are also creeping in since it's a bit of a pain to pull all that apart.

Barry, what springs did you go with?

One other point folks. See the little spacer washers no Moss number that I can see but Peter C says he has them. The spacer that goes on the top of the spindle and keeps it from being too tight against the thrust washer, Moss number 18 on bottom of page 34.

If you get the thrust washer too tight the stearing will not center, ask me how I know. I was advised that it really needs to be almost loose.

I did mine with the VB suspension rebuild kit. I didn't use the Kingpin bushings but I ended up replacing the kingpins - not because they were worn but because they were damaged by the time I got them cut off the A-arm - the lube issues are mentioned elsewhere. The kingpin bushings don't tend to wear from what I have read on this board. - and if they need to be replaced will need to be reamed.

More to the point - it is not a hard job at all - just methodical - and given the importance - it's an important fix

If your wheels are in at the top that severely, are the trunnions installed backwards? The upper trunnion through bolt, where the shock arm pinch bolt is, should be outboard of the kingpin. I've seen it many times, but I've never driven it.

PeterC

Barry, I bought some threaded rod at the hardware store. They're 3/8" diameter. I used a coarse thread rod and nuts. just welded the top nut on but a double nut there would probably work ok. I've also used two sets of bolts when I couldn't find some long enough that had threads all the way up, started with some about 2" long and then postiioned longer ones in the opposite set of holes to go the rest of the way. This is one place where the new ratcheting box end wrenches come in handy, make the job a lot faster.

Ok, one more time.

Car with engine on front jackstands. Up highish.

Floor jack under outer A frame, jack it up some and carefully remove spindle nut, jack high enough that there is no pressure on it, adjust as needed.

Lower floor jack under A frame, Down down down. when it is free you can kick the spring out, or yank it.

Replacement reverse of above.

Whole operation should be 30 min per side or so.

Threaded rod works well with a double nut. 3/8 as I recall as well. one of the few coarse threaded bolts on the entire car. A really deep socketand an impact wrench makes those puppies go on and off in a few minutes. Back off one bolt. inert threaded rod, tighten part way, remove 180 degrees out threaded rod goes in partway, now can remove other two bolts and finally vback threaded rod completely out. Reassembly is opposite of above or something like that. Once you get in there it will be obvious.

When you put it all back together and one wheel sticks out at really funny angles, trunion is in backwards. We've all done it.

God, I did it twice. Each side. Duh.

The only down side to Jack's method is that the caliper must come off and the tie rod end must be taken loose from the steering arm. You just have to choose your poison.

Springs are another issue. One's I got from VB I think it was several years ago, even though listed for a '68 were actually from a RBumpered Car. Two tries and finally ended up ordering BE Front springs. I had one of the few Off Road Spridgets in the world with those RB Springs

Post Installation, handling was indeed quite strange. When ordering ask question about colors on how spring is marked. They mean something.

BE springs should be 9.4 inchs long free measurement, 238 mm,

Bill Young, did you have to add any springs to the front of yours when you put the 2.8 in there? Just wondering, I could have spent a week talking to everyone about their cars and many times there was the car and not the person, or I wasn't sure who the car belonged to. So many different mods on cars.

He has stock springs with those twist-in supports.

Ah, like spring rubbers or are they the aluminum solid kind? I was suprised how well it handled in the autocross.

Dunno?

So I look at Jim's spring photo, then I look at a chart from Moss. Hmmm. Moss says 948/1098 should be yellow paint and 9-5/8
1275 green paint and 10"
1500 blue paint and 10-1/4

Ain't jiving...... dang.

Now what?

Peter C.

The standard ones from Moss, nothing fancy.
However, if I'd have known now, what I knew 2 days after I bought them, I'd have gotten the lowered.....

Barry the lowered ones are very stiff and lower than advertised. I have a set on my Midget and it is almost too low for a street car.

Trevor, I think you may know where my thinking was heading...
Anyway, I guess it's not a surface crack anymore....
That may be a little trickier to remove than I thought.

Should be easier to remove.

I can't remember exactly how I did my springs. I think I jacked it up and then took off the wheel and put a jack stand under the spindle, then let the jack pressure off so the spindle was resting on the jack stand and then removed the shock bolt at the top and then jacked it back up and slowly relieved the spring tension as it went up.

No difference in how you do it....jack under spring pan doesn't know the spring is broken!

Maybe you can clean all that oil off when you get in there barry

That break, ie shorter spring, just makes the job easier.

Peter-I checked both sides and the top trunion bolt assembly is outboard rather than inboard.

Well I did that, gave that area a good cleaning, and to my surprise, the dampers are red!?!?
Were they red from the factory?
Anyway, I can't work on this, I can't get my jack stands high enough.
I have a buddy with a lift, we'll play on monday.

One last question.. The new springs I have look considerably taller than the area they are going into. I know they'll compress to fit in there, but will they settle like leaf springs?
Just reading the horror stories about the right size springs has me a little concerned...

They will compress, think weight of car.

That was a nasty job. Not so much the springs, but the upper bushing. The side with the cracked spring had siezed, and no windy, PB or heat was moving that thing. An air hammer did.
I left the lower bushings alone, I wasn't prepared to go into that battle.

Anyway, all back together and it has made a CONSIDERABLE difference already. I'll do the bump stops tonight, and should be ready for Saturdays autocross!
Yay!
Cheers guys!

Way to go. Actually lower bushings are not that big of a deal.