This is now under my little car...what a bitch; not hooking everything up, just getting it up under there by myself...unlike an MGB rear end, this little sucker is too small & not center balanced enough to just sit on a floor jack!

Everything is finger tight right now....I'm cleaning up the park brake assembly & after its installed, I'll tighten things up a bit & set her on her wheels.

Another major milestone!

(Oh, if you look at the driver side of the differential case, you'll see a little silver band going around it - out near the elliptic spring tower...it holds the brake line to the case...I lost one of mine...anybody got an extra?)

uh oh! That was supposed to be painted.

Minus four points for originality... tsk tsk.

& where would that be? the missing clamp?

Alum on rear case and tranny are supose to be painted, rear end black and tranny engine color.

Not original, but clean, bare aluminum looks MUCH nicer IMHO!!

Not on a Midget, Jack.....on an early Midget the differential itself (aluminum 3rd member) is natural, the differential case is black....the transmission is natural.

There ARE some differences between the Bugeye & the Midget!


On an early Midget, this IS original! Remember, I took the car apart & found no sign of paint on the 3rd member or transmission (& on MGB's they are also both natural)...& some old factory/advertising photos I've got show them unpainted..remember, MG was always looking at ways to cut costs & they assembled lots of things just as the arrived at Abingdon.

Mine is bright red

Intresting to say the least.

Somewhere we got to get a concourse guide.

Mine is bright red

I do however think the bare alum. looks better than the painted.

Hey, Kim - is yours bright red?

I did not mean to do that. Dang computer locked up and somehow got in a double post with Jack's in the middle

Concourse guide for Bugeye or Srite wouldn't mean anything to the restoration/judging of a Midget....that's one of the things I've got against "The Original Sprite & Midget" - its too broad to be worth much.

Oh, I just slid up under my '74 RWA with a flashlight...I'm the 2nd owner & the female original owner from whom we got it never did anything to it except repairs.....3rd member is dirty but unpainted as is the transmission.

We need all the Spridget concourse guides.

One of the things I've never liked about the term "Spridget" is that it tries to homolgate the Sprite & the Midget into the same car - they're not!

Not entirely sure I agree - we might actually get serious around here.

FWIW prior to my dismantling, everything was a lovely shade of oil - and it seemed to have come that way from the factory

I must agree Tony I have several Diffs at Home. Two From Midgets (Both Natural in Color) and two From Sprites (Both have black Paint on em.)

Hi Scott, how's everything going?

So when you say "natural color" do you mean rust brown?
That's the color of mine, and I'd consider that to be "natural".

I do not know about the color of diffs. Honestly, I do not care, but I could see where there should be two separate concours guides (I thought there was). However, to say that they are "two different cars" may be a bit much. The differences in any given model year are superficial at best.

I would suggest that many differences certainly do exist but they tend to be more by model year than badge type, and certainly more with appearance details such as Tony describes as well as trim (chrome bits etc.) than mechanicals, kinda like the differences between Buicks and Oldsmobiles (perish the thought! )

Buick and Olds made completely different engines!

The Midget and Sprite were mechanically identical.

Excellent point Donn.

OK, I know you are right, but you know what I meant, maybe I should have said Chevy and Olds (but even that is not a perfect analogy)! What I was referring to was "badge engineering"!

But, I think Donn is saying that the Badge Engineering was really just that. More in line with Fords/Mercs of the 70's/80's.

That's the analogy I was looking for Trevor!!!
(What can I say, I'm just not that familiar with the "big" stuff!! )

Camaros & Firebirds?

I've seen some that were pretty hard to tell apart.

I know, after awhile, one mullet looks pretty much the same as another

A Chevy engine is not a Pontiac engine, and don't try to tell an American car nut that it is. The only ones you left out now are Cadillac and GMC (which is identical to Chevy).

But when it comes to a Morris, Austin, MG differential, gearbox or engine, they're all the same. Gosh, even the Triumph spitfire engine is the same as a Midget engine.

Almost all BMC/British Leyland vehicles were "badge engineered". GM does it all the time,the Opel/vauxhall/Saturn Aura is an example.

Stuart.

But many of those have different engines and/or equipment.

I mean a Volvo S40 and a Ford Focus are built on the same platform, but it would be VERY hard to convert one into the other.

Sharing a common platform is one thing, but Badge Engineering is when there is no mechanical difference and the body variations are limited to trim/grills/tail lights... badges.

FWIW, on my '68 Sprite, the third member is unpainted aluminum. Now, I received the car when it was 35 years old, so who knows if a Midget rear end had ever been thrown in? It's definitely a 4.22, and it was never painted/coated. I am not going to paint it either, I like the aluminum look. Beautiful right next to my freshly satin-rustoleum-ed axle (I don't like flat or gloss under a car, satin is perfect IMO).

All I'm saying is that - badge engineering accepted (& the MG MkIII Farina Magnette was probably the biggest example) - there are some obvious differences between the Midget & Sprite.....yes, they are on the same platform....yes, they are mechanically the same....but, the way they were put together & the badge changes make them different.....so different that one can't say that what applies to 1 applies to both.

Here's a tiny example (but an example that should count off in a concours judging): many early Sprites had a passenger grab handle on the dash from the factory...no Midget ever had one.

I'm trying to build my '63 as the factory would've produced i (well....except for a few upgrades that would've/could've been done to an MG by a dealer).

I see what you are saying. To me, they are the same car because my interest in them is about how they drive and their basic configuration (2-door convertible/roadster). But they are different to you because you are more interested in the historical significance and having a collection of proper MG's.

Let's face it, spridgets are bastards. Many die hard MG people think of them as toy Austins made to look like MG's, and many Healey people think that they could have been a good car but the BMC group screwed it up before they could evolve into a proper sport cars. BTW, this is a GROSS generalization and just an opinion I formed based on my perceptions.

I've gotta admit, I've owned my Midgets for years & have done nothing to them except drive 'em (well 2 of them anyway)...they were always in my collection just to complete it (like the 1960 MkIII Farina Magnette).....but, now that I'm redoing my '63 Midget, I may start on my '74 RWA Midget......I always enjoyed driving those 2 cars.

But, the little Midget is fighting me every step of the way on this restoration....maybe its because I keep thinking about how to do things on my MGB's & this little sucker is so different from them its not funny!

Ahhh...

Now the light turns on!

Yes, you really can't approach the Midget the same way you approach the MGB. They really are (almost) completely different animals.
I say *almost* because there are things like the electrical systems that share a lot of similarities, in fact the used fuse block I just got would be at home in both my Midget and my MGB.

That being said, from the suspension up you have to work differently on the Midget than you do on the MGB.
They are just not the same *kind* of car.

I'm not sure what document folks are referring to when they mention a/the "concours guide".

The only true concours I have attended was the one held in conjunction with MG International 2006 in Gatlinburg. This was under the sanction of NAMGBR (North American MGB Register).

The judging consisted of three teams of two judges each; the judging teams focused on engine and drive drain/underbonnet, interior and general presentation, and mechanical (everything was tested to see that it worked correctly). According to the guideline document published before the event, vehicles were to be judged on "originality, condition, and technical inspection".

A total of 1000 points were awarded each participant at the start and points were deducted for each issue; non original parts, improperly functioning parts/systems, parts showing wear. Three levels of scoring were recognized; Certificate of Merit (invited to participate in concours), Certificate of Honorable Mention (second tier), and Certificate of Excellence (top tier).

According to the "NAMGBR Concours Judging Guidelines MG2006" the "...official reference books of NAMGBR Concours judging are 'Original MGB' and 'Original Sprite and Midget'". For the Spridgets, that's the Horler book.

Just a bit of info...

Ray

&, IMO, that book sucks! It doesn't have enough detailed photos...it doesn't make clear the differences between the Midget & Sprite other than the cosmetic ones...unless a person really knew the differences, they'd count off for one of the cars.

& IMO the book leans too heavily towards Sprites!

So, Tony,...a better alternative?

I can't imagine the challenge of attempting to write a definitive work on something as detailed as a car....especially many years AFTER the last original rolled off the line. Locating survivors in itself would be difficult and there are bound to be discrepancies among them. Is that particular part truly original? Oriented correctly? Painted correctly? Or should it be painted at all?

Funny, over time the mind clouds a bit and those of us old enough to REMEMBER what they actually looked like...must rely upon our memory...to remember what they looked like...

There are period photos available, and brochures and other contemporary publications...but much of that was pre-production detail. And the running changes...I'm amazed that Horler was able to capture as much as he did.

That said, I know there are some people that are VERY passionate about preserving the history of our LBCs via concours examples, Paul Hanley, the NAMGBR Concours Chairman for one. While many folks will give Paul and others a hard time about their 'nit picking" concours rules, there's you and me, and others on this list that appreciate picking the nits and even wish SOMEONE would do a better job of it in print.

BTW...it was my observation that the only time the "book" was actually brought out, it was to clarify a dispute between the judges and car owner...if it wasn't in the book, there was no deduction. The judges I observed really knew their stuff...and that makes ALL the difference between concours and your average car show.

Ray

Dunno, Ray...I used my '74 RWA for some things when I wondered...used old photos for other things...used examples of original cars & restored cars (but made sure I could verify more than once) & I'm sure I still will miss something.

But don't tell me my transmission should be painted just because there's a photo of an unrestored Sprite with a painted one....especially when I know better.