So I was on my way home the other day and happened to spot a europa behind a warehouse...So I did a little detective work to find the owner...cars been sitting for 4 years, owner wants 2500 bucks for it...Problem is; it's got a mazda rotary in it. It apparently ran when parked, body is really good, interior is mint...Not sure about anything else cuz I don't know much about these things. Anyway...What do you guys think?? Is it worth anything without the proper motor??(tranny is original)

I'd be concerned over the transaxle... What'd they have to do to it so they could mate a Mazda to it... and is/was it a Renault car or a later T/C one?
With the proper engine they are amazing cars. With the rotary it's the equivalent of a Chevy V-8 in a Jag, IMO. Value gone for a chop.

If the condition is as described, it's probably not a bad deal. My guess is that they would even be willing to negotiate on the price to have it gone.

The rotary is a good swap, but if the engine doesn't run or you don't want the rotary, sell it off and get one of the kits to install an engine from the Toyota 4AGE family. The rotary is one of the engines that won't affect the value of the Europa too much; maybe even desirable. Barry Spencer in the Bay Area has one in his D-mod car. He took that class at the SCCA Solo Nationals a few years back.

You didn't say whether it is an S1, S2 or TC, but for the money, you almost can't go wrong. Other engine options are the Lotus TC (depending on what model this is), 2.0l Zetec which bolts right up to the TC bell housing, the 2.3l Duratec and of course, going back the the Renault motor if it's an S1 or S2.

That's where I was going with the question. Maybe a cross-flow head, Kent block. IF it's a notched car.

In my experience with Europas, by the time you were finished, it would have been cheaper to buy one that was already roadworthy.

Depends on WHO ya KNOW, Jody!

Well, I am really not sure what model it is....I couldn't find anything on it to tell, cuz it's the first time I've ever really looked at one. It did have rims on it that very closely resembled the mgb le/stag rims..would that mean anything??
They seem very negotiable on the price??What do you guys think you be a 'good price'..considering the last thing i need now is another old brit car.

Are the buttresses running from the rear of the roof straight to the back or do they have a "notch" to facilitate rearward vision? If it has the reduced buttresses it WAS a twincam car. That would influence my decision a LOT. Electric windows?


If you can get a chassis number that'll tell us what it was.

I don't remember 100%, but I think I am gunna call him tomorrow and make some kinda offer. My TR6 auction on ebay ends tonight, so that will have some influence over how badly I want this....So far with 6 is a few hundred bucks from reserve with a few hours left to go.

Well, if it's an early car, no matter WHAT engine is in it, it'll break your heart. If it was a TwinCam car, it can be made to be a riot. They ~ARE~ that different. Pedigree it before you jump!

Doc - could you elaborate on that a bit? I've been eying 'ropas for a long time without really knowing the difference in them.(they often seem to go for bargain prices) If this car was in my neighborhood I prolly would've bought it - not really knowing what I was getting.

Okay, the caveat first: this is MY opinion, mmmkay?


The early cars had the body bonded to the frame. A "negative" IMO. They had fixed windows, I.E. no way to pay tolls, etc.

Renault engine/trans... French(!)... another negative to me. SAE it ain't. The Kent based Twin Cam is a MUCH better engine for my taste... not to mention more power.

Drum brakes inna rear... feh. WHAT was he THINKIN'?!?

High buttresses, REALLY limited rearward vision, mirrors are only half helpful.

Those are a few of what I consider the 'down-sides' of the early cars. With one in front of me I would pro'lly come up with more

In regards to drum brakes:

All the europas had inboard drums - even the TC.

heck, so did the Elite, Eclat, and S1 Esprit.

They aren't that bad - the stop the car well enough for the power it originally put down and, in the case of the europa, are pretty easy to get to. The are also surprisingly hard to lock up.

The reason drums where used was to save weight - similar to the F1 cars of the time. The outboard disk systems of the era where much heavier then inboard and lotus is all about saving weight. The probably could have used inboard disks (like XJ6 / XJS jags), but chose drums.

For everythinge else - I agree with Doc :-) -- Get an S2 or TC.

Of course, you could always get one with a blown engine and throw a rover V8 in it. How that would be fun, figuring it weighs the same as the TC.

I shoulda said the early cars had "small" drums inna rear. T/C had REAL rear brakes.

That I will agree on :-)

You could mount T/C (or Spitfire as that is what they are) rear brakes on a S1, but really - just get an S2 or TC. Live with less pain.

-bp

I've a couple sets of shoes here, NOS. Can't recall if they're for a TC or the French cars...

I ~NEED~ to go thru all that *stuff* and get rid of the non-Elan bits.

Anybody want ONE Dunloop NOS wire wheel for an early Elite?

I actually quite like the "concept" of a S1 - the lghtest, lowest and least practical of the Europas. Not sure if I'd actually want to own one though. The Renault lump wasn't so bad, an all-alloy unit, with removable cylinder sleeves. And with a Gordini cross-flow head & Webber carb, performance was pretty darn respectable. And the high rear buttresses and dash layout were cool too IMHO. But am happy to stick with my TCS.

Rob.

Well, I looked at a few limited pics I could find on google, and I've determined the car I am looking at has to be a later model, with the cut down rear for visibility. The other thing I am not sure about is I am like 90% sure that car I looked at had no rear bumper, but all the pics I've found the cars have big chrome rear bumpers?
Anyway, I did call the owner of the vehicle, he's owned it 12 years...2nd owner, drove it with the mazda motor for 4 years, but stopped driving it because it now needs some tranny work. The interior(which looks very good to me) is original black and red two/tone leather...and he seems pretty negotiable on price, he was busy so we didn't talk long...I forgot to ask what year/model it is. The motor however is a 13B(?) Rotary from a 86 Rx-7.
The TR6 auction ended with a new buyer...so if all goes well that will be gone in a week or so, thus freeing up some space....I've got a busy work week ahead though, so it's going to be at least a week or so before I can really check out the europa, the owner of the shop it's sitting at has the keys and I've now got permission to open it and nose around whenever I please...so when I do I'll report back.

I think there might be some confusion/misinformation here about the Europa brakes. No Europa ever came with inboard rear brakes (except maybe the 47, but that is a different animal). As for brake sizes, all Europas had the same size front discs from the Spitfire. Europas (S1, S2 & TC) all had the same size rear brakes (drum), except the TC Special, they were the same diameter, but .25" wider.

I believe the bumpers came off of the Ford Anglia.

- Doug

Well, I was in the area today so I drove by to confirm; no bumper on the rear..Is that of any importance?? or did someone just remove it?

I wouldn't consider the rear bumper a "deal kller". More concerned over the engine/transaxle stuff. It'd be a "pass" if the final drive were swapped to Mazda gear.

...Just MY take!

He said the driveline was original other than the engine.

Hi,
I think you may have gotten some misinformation from the present owner. Original interior on Europa's was vinyl. It was available in black, and later in oatmeal (tan). The oatmeal was a very high quality material, heavily grained, and many people did ask if it was leather (when my car was new).
I don't think there was ever a two tone black/red.
Best wishes, John

I never saw any red or red trim interiors either. Black or tan were the choices.

Ok, thats good to know...I am gunna have to get some pics of this thing to post up becasue I am really not sure about this thing. It looks like the bumper is kinda 'molded' into the body or somethnig....I can go on Sunday to get some pics, because I don't want the shop owners seeing me ot their taking pics. I'll post them when I get them.

Yes pictures would help. With regard to the bumpers, on all the Europas from S1s through the last TCS the fiberglass follows the contour of the bumpers - front and rear. Many of the owners, who are no longer worried about shopping cart dings, remove the bumpers and fill in the small mounting holes. If you google images for Lotus 47, you will be able to see a little more clearly in pictures.

Like some of the early Corvettes, the bumpers are only mounted to the body (fiberglass), and are not likely to help with crash protection. Since it is almost an "optional" personal feature, there are always a few for sale. Sourcing a rear bumper should not be a problem.

Regarding the rotory engine, this would not stop me from looking at the car. A replacement 2.0L Ford Zetec, or 4AGE are popular transplants and with the right valve cover, twin carbs (or EFI) and a wild exhaust, they can be made to look semi period correct.

The best source for Europa knowledge is the Yahoo Lotus-Europa Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuseuropa/

and Jerry's Lotus Europa Site

http://www.lotus-europa.com/index.html

Jerry manages a registry and has collected manuals, parts lists, cross references, and all the info you will need to keep any Europa in top condition.

Best of luck - Dean (HealeyBN7; ...and S2 Zetec in progress)

Hello Dean, welcome to the forum.



I think he can do pretty well here, too.

And as an aside, the Elans have "bumpers"... made of fiberglass!

The same front bumper fits the Elan +2 and Europa. And Doug is right: it came from an Anglia. The rear ones are different, Europa may be Anglia, +2 is different.

As for engines, a "tall block" Lotus DOHC could be period correct but a Zetec? nahhh...

I still think a Rover v8 like the GKN Type 47 Europa would be the most amazing swap.

A big V8 that way what the Lotus TwinCam does with at LEAST 215 hp, 240lbs of torque. That would be a WHOLE lot of fun and somewhat period as Lotus sanctioned the GKN type 47.

Welp, snuck some pics....As many as I could before the attack dog came at me :S The rear bumper is missing and I can now see the tiny holes...Otherwise everything else looks pretty good, The TR6 should be gone tomorrow, then I'll get back in contact with the owner of this and make an offer???What do you guys think would be a fair offer??

Looks like a later S2 (type 65). The two large square vents in the rear lid are not original. I suspect that you didn't get a chance to see the VIN. The single wiper makes me wonder if was originally a non-US car.

Can't figure out what is below the door handles. I see them on both sides. Looks like damage where the rear bumper was and below the tail lights. Recommend you poke around under the deck lid and make sure the bobins are secure. Like the current Elises, it doesn't take much to damage these cars.

If the frame is good and the glass damage is light, I would but it. I like the high sails. Since there is very little monetary reward for creating an a concours (S2)example, you can have some fun and take it as far as you want. Just go into this project open minded, as it will cost you more than it will return. Poke around on Europa Banks Engineering site to get some ideas.

Maybe, maybe, maybe S2s will begin to rise in price, but the polarizing looks will likely keep them affordable.

Once the attach dogs are clear, it would be good to see how the rotory conversion was executed.

Good luck. - Dean

A Series 2 by the looks. Pannel fit and doors look O.K. (although you will not know till you open them), ride height looks O.K. Paint looks a bit knackered - but cannot see stress cracks in the photos. There are a couple extra vent holes in the rear pannel.

Price? Heck - I don't know. I think it would depend on the condition of the chassis and mechanicals. If the "Y" is rusted out - big bucks. I think you should take a pretty good look underneath, and check wheel bearing (esp rear), brakes, transaxle etc. before diving in.

As with any old Brit car - a cheap car now can end up being very expensive in the long run!

Rob.

I'd pass.

Well, the owner called today....We agreed on what I think is a very fair price, so assuming all goes as planned it'll be in my hands in a week or so. TR6 was picked up Saturday, Sunday I bought something else....that free parking spot just never will be empty.

The owner does have the original rear bumper, and some other parts; replacement door hinges(one is broken) and some other small things.
I am going to attempt to get the mazda engine running and driveable, but if not does anyone know where I could source an original europa motor...Also, the reason the car was parked at this shop is b/c it needed some tranny work...the original transmission is in place, but needed worked according to the owner....I moved the shifter around and it seems to go into all gears nicely, but kinda sloppy...so if I can find a good used replacement tranny somewhere that would be great...anyone have any parts sources for these things??

Try Dave Bean Engineering,San Andreas,CA,
or JAE in Goleta,CA.

- Doug

It's likely the only thing that the transmission needs are the shift linkage rod ends replaced and linkage adjusted.

Thanks guys....The reason I wasn't too concerned with the tranny issue is because I figured it was probably something minor like linkages or just lack of proper maintence that might have been the problem.

Woo hoo. Gotta get some pictures up soon. I can't wait to see this thing. Thosa rotaries can be made to put out all kinds of power.

I posted a few pics a page back, but I'll be sure to get some more(especially of the engine compartment) as soon as I get the car in my hands.

I was wondering....Given that this rotary has been sitting 4 years, should I do anything to it before attempting to start it other than I would do with a normal engine??

I hadn't noticed your pics in the previous post until today. I think you got a good deal at whatever you paid for it, and it sounds like less than the asking price. The body looks straight, and it's in one piece. Have fun with it. I'll echo the earlier post about the Lotus Europa group and Jerry's web site. They are an invaluable source of information. Anything you run into during your work will likely have already been encountered.

Meh... like door hinges. With sandpaper locating washers... THAT's an interesting li'l job.



...ya don't wanna hear MY suggestion...

Now that you're committed, treat it as you would any engine having sat dormant for a while. I'd toss some Marvel oil down th' plug hole(s) & turn it by hand a bit.

I've been tothe eruopa group, but need to find my yahoo I.D before I can register...Also found a site with a europa registry and alot of other info thats been very helpful.

Yeah Doc, I know....I am not crazy about rotary either, but worse case scenerio; It won't run and I have to find something else to drop in there.

I've got manuals, parts books, tech bulletins, collections of "Re-marque" and "Lotus West" newsletters dating from "th' day". Along with having both sold 'em NEW and wrenching on them after that for a PA dealership. Just an FYI.

Great too know....I am sure I'll have alot of questions/problems once I get into it.

Actually there is almost as large a "clan" of rotary fanatics are there are Lotus zealots.

Grassroots Motorsports did an article about installing a Mazda rotary(I still prefer Wankel design in cataloguing engine type) in a spitfire(I believe) several years ago. That article did include a number of references to rotary folks. Might wanna research that if you can.

I'm among th' zealots.

Good philosophy Ron. Give credit where it's due.

I'm Wankel ignorant. It's like MS Windblows to me: none of it should work!

Loti are fun, unfortunately I have grown too large to enjoy them.

First too tall, 6'3" so often had to make sure I was riding in a convertible, scrunched into a Super 7 for a couple of quickies around Sears Point once, that was fun inspite of the discomfort. Now I've added the girth to go with the height.

Worked at a 14 car line dealership where one of the lines was Lotus. One of the techs was a wannabe racer, because his brother had made the circuit(Forbes-Robinson) and we were out on a test drive(amazing how the sportier cars got driven longer on their test drives) in the 4 seater(which was the only Lotus that I could comfortably drive) when SOMETHING told me to stop, slammed on the brakes just as the upper third of a Eucalyptus tree dropped onto the pavement in front of us. If I hadn't locked(almost anyway) them up it would have crashed onto our roof.

My friend and neighbor, who lets me drive his cars has an M100 Elan, which we just went through resealing the engine, clutch and new axles in and a two year old Elise. I can drive the M but scrunch in the Elise. So I stay with my 6

Yeah, they all seem to have been desig