Well folks after much deliberation and last minute jitters as to whether or not I want to actually do this,,,

It has begun and the shop has the car now.

I will post as many pictures as I can as the swap is performed.

The motor is a 20 Valve 4AGE Toyota twincam, called a
"BLACKTOP" it is rated by Toyota at 165 horsepower. The motor will remain essentially stock and employ the factory ECU and ITB fuel injection as it comes from Toyota. Transmission is a T-50 from a Corolla GTS.

Wish me luck,, I am nervous as heck!

Jay

Good luck, sounds like a very interesting swap -- and should be quite something to drive when you are done.

So the power to weight ratio of a Saturn V should be enough then?
Good luck indeed Jay, I've always had a high regard for this swap and look forward to pics / vids.

woohoo!!

Wow, wonders if it will fly.

Hey! I wanna do that one. Keep a detailed record please.

So what is going under the rear end to keep all that power on the pavement? This one is going to be fun! How much does the Toyota engine and tranny weigh compared to a 1275 and tranny?

I am very interested in the t-50 swap as I believe it could be a good candidate for 1500 5-speed. Please keep us posted.


Oh... and ITB's are the bomb!

The rear end is also going to be Corolla GTS. They come with LSD if you pick the right one and obviously, it will have to be narrowed etc.

Last numbers I looked through the trans weighs a little less and the motor a little more for a whopping gain of about 20 pounds, so a new glass hood should take car of that. My hood has those pins at the front and is also cracking so I wanted to replace it with a FG one anyway, just didn't want to do a whole one piece glass nose since my front fenders are extremely nice.

The motor fits without the heater tray removed and I'd like to keep the stock heater depending on whether or not the distributor hits it. This motor has the dizzy driven off the rear of the exhaust cam.

Jay

Get rid of that dizzy and install Megajolt!



Yeah, your gonna need to get rid of that extra 20 pounds with only a 110HP gain over stock.

Move the heater back, and move the battery to the trunk.

Battery to the trunk is an idea I was kicking around... hadn't thought about moving the heater back. I suppose it would still be above that "plenum thing" in the rearmost position.

Of course there isn't alot of room in the trunk either with the flux capacitor back there and all!

You have to build a new plenum, but it would be easy to do. Moving the battery to the back might also give you better weight distribution and lower your center of gravity (you could possibly recess it a bit.

I thought I've seen one of these conversions before and it involved doing some major surgery to the transmission tunnel and the front cross member. Need to go and do some research this one. I can see it now, no Honey that spare 1275 that has been cluttering the back of the garage up and that spare tranny, they'll be there for a while until my next project is complete. Oh that other engine and transmission and rear end and yes I'm going to hang it from the garage I-beam and lower it into the car. And yes you won't have access to the garage for your car for another year or so. I can hear it now. Time to start hiding extra cash for this project.

So what did the Corolla GTS run you? What are you figuring on the cost to drop the Toyota drivetrain into your Spridget. Hopefully figure on making it a Round Arch as well to fit some bigger tires under the rear end.

Motor, complete with ECU, Alternator, Injection etc
= $1200

Transmission, T-50 5 speed
= $350

Rear End assy, with narrowing job and mods for pickups etc.
= $750

Swap labor and fabrication,
= $1700

I budgeted 4-5K for the whole thing complete and this is what the shop owner and I agreed to after selecting pieces to be used.

Things that may err,,,,, WILL be additional,

Guages,
Brakes,
Frontline / Huffaker or like coil over front suspension
Clutch

Thanks did find several sites on Toyota - Spridgets swaps when I Googles 4AGE and Spridget. Not in ther budget this week but good to know. This swap is just about double what a 5 Speed conversion is and then it is so much more. Wil lbe intersting to watch and follow your porgress . Take lots of pics. So do we have an estimated completion date yet?

Estimated completion time is two weeks. But honestly I am expecting it to be a full month.

I may have decided to replace the seats I just spent a fortune on having redone since, once in the car,,, I just don't like them. New bottom pans and foam kits from moss, new upholstery and all fitted by a proffesional and,,,,, I feel like I am sitting on a huge pillow. Maybe I can have some foam taken out of the bases but I am thinking about racing seats instaead and just upholstered to match the cars red interior. Bummer..

Well that was quick!

they have had the car a half of a day and have called me to pick up my 1098 and trans (rivergate 5 speed)..

Maybe it will take less than a month.

You wouldn't uh...be...uh..selling that 5 spd...would ya?
I've got a 1275 rebuilt and sitting in the garage that's just dying to have one behind it before I install it!
Seriously..if you're interested in selling it, send me a PM.

Thanks,
Devin

RZ, I am very envious. You are going to have one fine car when this is done.

Just PM'd ya Jay. You're the guinea pig here. If that shop does a good job on your car then I just may have them do up my Bugeye. Having another 60 or 70 HP would be fun!

The cost seems to be reasonable too and will ultimately be cheaper than stuffing my Datsun A15 full of go-fast parts.

Keep me/us updated!!

Going to see the Midget tomorrow,

Motor has been sat in place and a header is being built for it.

I'll take some pictures if my camera is working.

Computer for the car is a programmable MAP sensor driven unit so it will not have the restrictive MAF intake but instead a set of open trumpets on the ITBs with foam socks.

Jay

Take about an inch or two of foam out if you feel they are too high. However, they will compress over some time.

Very cool Jay! Make sure they keep accurate records of what they did to your car so they can do mine up just as good as yours. I am seriously looking at doing this swap next winter.....maybe sooner if Vegas is good to me.

I have a good digital camera you can use if yours won't work. I have some running around to do tomorrow, but can swing by and drop it off. LMK.

Man I am green with envy , that is gonna be a screaming little machine. Get neck braces for the take off, and invest in whiplash insurance. SWEET!
Ðan

Hey Mike,

If you are around today I could also sure use some help on the 64 MGB I just brought home.

The PO had the distributor all messed up and I slammed my 1098 distributor in it just to get it to run and found i had to twist it all the way around till the vac diaphram was pointed at the front of the car till it would run because he started the #1 plug lead in the wrong position on the cap!

So it'll now start, but runs like crap and I really need help!

Ready for pics anyone?

Do ya hafta ask?

Well it is in. Not as far along yet as I had hoped but it will,,,,,, IT WILL,, be at the Lake this summer. The header has proven to be more of a challenge than we'd hoped to get all the tubes the right length, it is going to be tri-Y with the last collector under the carquite a ways. Ordered spun aluminum intake trumpets that will have foam socks on them.

Lovely!!! That's going to be a blast...

Now call the garage, and tell them to put the oil filler cap back on, before someone drops a washer in there!

Yeah, shop was looking at the hose plate that will go there and lead to an oil cooler and remote filter setup.

So after I take it back out and since I have these three cans off Moss Motors Austin healey green engine paint, should I paint the motor green hoping no one will notice?

Did you read the rules about posting pornographic images on the forum?
PPHHHWWOOOORRRRRR!!!!
You going to the Ozarks in June?

That is what my co-workers call "jayporn" because I am allways looking at britcar stuff on my breaks.

And yes,,, I will be at the Lake in June. Family that still lives in StLouis, where I'm from, has a house at the lake thats about 20 min away from the party,,,, at least the way I drive it is.

God, can I be the first to ask for a ride?

Sure Jack,

You are going to be at the Lake this summer right. I know we were going to tell war stories.

BTW, I just pinned on Senior three days ago, woo hoo. More friggin responsibility!

another pic from the front
[img]http://forum.britishv8.org/file.php?2,file=893,in_body_attachment=1[/img]

Look for me at the registration table. If not me they will know where I am. I will assist passing out the goodies and what ever else is needed.

Miss Agatha will be close by flurting with the other Bugeyes.

was thinking about this engine last might and had a question - when putting an engine like this in an older car, how does it work in terms of computer/ electronic controls? As I understand it, the ECU affects so much - what happens when you don't use all that - or do you?

Yeah it is using the factory computer and a piggybacked programmable computer. The Ecu is going to be mounted inside the car under the removable panel on the passenger side footwell.

Ok so the 4AGE install is making progress, slow, but progress IS there.

The car is most likely going to break stuff so I am wondering if any of you has a detailed account of what is involved getting this RX7 rear end into the car with trailing links a panard bar and coil overs in back?

Obviously a "kit" would be deluxe but haven't been able to find anything.

Frontline front suspension looks great but is god awful expensive for seemingly what you get. Any other ideas?

I dont belive your going to find anything in a kit but if you look aroiund the web a bit you'll see a few conversions that have been done. Most I belive include cutting threw the rear floor arear to make room for coil overs. The front spring perch area can be adapted to accept some type of trilaering arm or 4 link setup.

Here you go (an RX7 shortened disk brake rear in a Spridget):

http://the-mite.com/mite22.htm

I think the author of this page is a member here at BCF...he may chime in.

Jay-
I put an RX rear in my sprite and did a little documentation of the process on the link above that Nial posted. It works well, is strong and small(ish) for a rear axle. Moser cut and shortened the axles, and I narrowed the housing. 3 things come to mind:
1. To center the input (pinion) you'll need to shorten the axle different amounts on each side. I did not and my my driveshaft exits the tunnel quite close to one side, not in the center.
2. I think Moser will do the whole job: axles, housing and brackets. You'll need to call to make sure
3. I don't think the Mazda calipers will interfere with a coilover setup, nor with a 1/4 elliptic setup. This should simplify the parking brake setup.

~Bob
p.s. 140 HP in a Sprite is FUN! http://youtube.com/watch?v=l3yZtayy_DU

That REALLY is making me re-think my entire goal with the car! Man, that looks like fun.

Maybe a turbo/SC on the 1275 is in order after all!

Oh my goodness gracious me. Now that's the way they should have come from the factory. Good on ya.

WHeeee!!!

Okay, now I can't wait to get mine done!

Thanks for the link to Bobs site guys. I will try to find a shop in Denver that car do this for me as I don't weld.

Branson, are you going to have the rotary Sprite running in time for the lake gathering.

I hope to see at least one of the Suzuki G13b powered cars there too so we can all exchange notes and Ideas.

Anyone know how much a Spridget weighs with no engine or transmission in place?

Don't laugh, but Hyundai make a great little 1.8 and 2.0 that puts out 130/140 hp repectivly w/ 10.3/1 compression stock. They are plentiful and CHEAP !!!! I built an '01 Tiburon(2.0)into a Stinger dirt track car and it is currently undefeated. Honda, Acura, VTEC whatever, Altima, it doesn't matter. It SMOKES EVERYTHING, including cars that have been modded and are illegal. I've got two extra 1.8's here and have been tring to thing what cheap tranny I could addapt to it. Opperative word here is cheap. Allot of drifters use the Corrolla package and prices are high. Besides, it's soo much more fun smoking folks with a Hyundai !!!!!! I just need to figure out what to put behind it.

I keep looking here

http://www.jdmtigerjapanese.com/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=156

unfortunately I wont have the car done in time to go to missouri. My build has hit a snag as we have sold our house and are in the middle of a move. I have started test fitting the motor and mocking up motor mounts. I hope to get the mounts nailed down in the next few days and get my two motors sent off to be rebuilt and ported. In the meantime I will start the wiring, plumbing, and get the RX7 rear end narrowed. Id like to get it running and sorted before winter so I can work on the interior and finishing details while the weather turns cold..

im thinking about painting my rotary that green color.....think anyone will notice? lol!

Well YEAH!

If I paint my motor green at least it has pistons in it...

Whereas yours has those magical spinny things flying around in a trichoid-ish pattern. What are you going to do about a muffler? I used to Marshal corners for the 100 Acre Wood Rally in Missouri,,,, at three in the morning a rotary (Rod Millen) coming up a hill sideways at 10 grand sounds like its going to make all the bark on every tree spontaneously combust.

At high RPMs rotarys CAN breathe fire!

Im removing the original fuel tank and putting a 10-12 gal fuel cell in the trunk (between it and the battery I will have no trunk)This will open the entire rear area for the exhaust system. I am thinking about running a racing beat pre-silencer and a muffler. I may wrap the exhaust header and pipe up to the pre-silencer to deaden some of the noise. I have already applied bedliner to the tub and will add some dynamat or the like to it before I put down the carpet and interior panels to help quiet things a bit more.

I think the exhaust is going to be a bit restrictive but with my engine builder saying he can easily make a reliable 185-200hp out of the bridgeported 12a I think I have some room to loose a few ponies.

Hi:

I'm a first time poster ( Intro here )debating putting either a Miata engine or a 5-valve in my Midget. I don't want to make this any more difficult than it needs to be.

On your 5-valve install, it doesn't seem like you had to cut the transmission tunnel. Is this true? If so, that may very well be the deciding facor.

Any help is appreciated.

--Cheers, Chris

Well I'd love to tell you no cutting is needed but the truth is that although nothing on top needs to be cut, and therefore looks stock inside the car, the center of the cross member does have to be cut because the T-50 is lower further back than say the original trans or the datsun 210 trans. So once you cut or notch that cross member you obviously need to replace that strength. Some folks weld a cross member under the floor side to side. We put mine inside the car butted up behind the original running from side to side after notching both sides on the tunnel. Don't really car if the seats could go further forward than half way because if you need to adjust the seats all the way forward in a midget,,,,,,,,, well,,,,,,

The early 4AGE, 16v, has the distributor forward on the motor drive off the front of the ex cam where as the silver top motor has it running off the back off the ex cam so since I was planning on moving the battery to the trunk anyway, yup, cut that whole shelf out too. No heater but planning on doing a small marine type on the inside of the car, and actually there is plenty of room. battery is now a smallish gell in the forward part of passenger footwell, computer is directly above it inside the car mounted onto the removable panel blank for RHD pedalset.

Will post more pictures within a week or so.

So if i made template for where to cut and made a couple sets of the new mounts modeled after mine,,,, would there be any interest in a 4AGE "kit" ?

jay

Now a kit would be interesting! I thought about creating a kit for the 12a swap since there is no cutting on the car but I figure as time goes on there will be fewer 12a and 13b engines to go around which would limit the popularity of a kit. Not to mention the fear that people have of rotary engines

Yeah what the heck, I am going to build five sets and see if there is interest. A quick experiment that wont cost me that much if it falls flat.

Branson, 12As are litering my nearby junkyard, and how much does racing beat get for a refurbished one?

most of the rebuilt 12a's that I have seen go for $1,800.00 + if you want it ported then you are looking $2200 - for a street port to upwards of $3000.00 for a bridgeport.

I pulled the entire drivetrain from an '84 RX7 GSL, nets me a 12a, 5spd transmission and a rear axle with disc brakes and a LSD. That set me back $350.00 I picked up a spare 12a for another $100.00. I have a buddy here in OKC that rotaries and rx7's are his thing so he is rebuilding my engine and bridgeporting it for $100.00 + his cost for parts.

If you go with the 12a swap, its pretty easy. the motor has a steel plate that mounts to the front cover and then has tabs that mount to the frame rails using donut style isolators. the transmission mount hits the crossmember of the spridget almost perfectly. If you use the tailshaft housing and shifter from a mazda b2000 pickup, the shifter location is almost smack dab in the middle of the hole in the transmission tunnel.

so you need to fabricate a steel plate for the front mount, get a set of rubber or polyurethane isolation mounts for the engine, either drill 2 new holes in the spridget crossmember or fabricate an adapter to mount to the original holes to mount the transmission, shorten a drive shaft, narrow the rx7 rearend and have the axles drilled for the 4 on 4 lug pattern, and thats about it. with the 12a I dont think you have to remove the heater shelf either. Mine was already removed by the previous owner.

Once I get mine sorted I will post pictures and even templates of the mounts that I used which would make the swap a bolt in type of job. I will have done no cutting on the car. worst case scenario I will have only drilled a couple of new holes.

Bump.

What is the status of this project?

--Thanks, Chris

On mine or Jay's? Im unfortunately stuck on high center thanks to a robbery during our move (mainly lost electronics including my laptop that had all of our financial data on it)...so having to go through all of the hoops to secure our accounts etc. No progress on the car as its stored away in a storage unit until things get sorted

Status is,,,,,,,,,,,,, almost done!

Pictures to follow soon.

impatiently patiently waiting

Branson,

sorry to hear about your stuff getting stolen, that sucks guy.

the latest obstacle has been the clutch issue, since this is actually a FWD engine mated to a RWD trans there is a certain combination of the correct parts that makes this work well. Evidently the first try was not the correct combination.

you guys sure are lucky I am the one paying the bill to find all this crap out. And if we didn't have Brusts' site it'd been a heck of a lot more expensive!

yup it sucks....but fortunately my wife wasnt home when it happened and possessions can be replaced.

Best of luck on the build!

I will say this about my build.

Every time I look at it I am amazed at what a piece of work that Toyota Silver/Blacktop 4AGE is. The motor is just plain good looking and extremely well engineered.

Now that the JDM motor importers are supplying them for such little money I find it hard to understand how anyone would choose anything else.

The 4AFE sold here is an 1800cc single cam version of this motor that came in the Celicas,,,,,, and the 20V head bolts right on it! 180hp easy factory fuel injected hp for an MGB. So now I am thinking I need to do an MGBGT lemans replica next,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,WITH AC!.

I keep meaning to show you guys Mike French's Toyo-Spridget.
Mike's a pal of mine who's been racing wheel-to-wheel in Spridgets for years, but this is more of a "street-toy/track-day car".
Another member here (ChrisS) knows Mike pretty well too.

Mike built it last year and has run it at a bunch of track days.
The pictures here were taken when he and I shared a garage at a NASA track event recently at Pocono (that's my red, race-Escort).

The car (he calls it "The Toy-let") is street legal in New Hampshire

He ran this car at Mt. Tremblant last weekend.

As you can see, it is running carbs and a "normal" distributor (from a Starlet).
Mike's not a computer guy, so this car is more old-school in terms of electronics.
I think he told me this is the "small-bearing" 4A-GE engine.
Running a race-modded Sprite rear with strong axles and double-bearing hubs. He had it dynoed. I forget the exact number but about 120 HP to the rear wheels.
It has a Corolla 5-speed trans.
Mike removed the trans tunnel and built a steel cage to replace it...then sheet metal over that. Footwell room is reduced somewhat. He also feels that a full cage is a "must" to make up for the removal of certain load bearing areas.

Anyway, if you need Mike's contact info, I have it.

Neat car. I'd like to get it covered in the British V8 newsletter to join my Midget and a couple of others with engine swaps. I really like the fit of this conversion and the use of the early ignition and carbs. You can contact me directly at bkyoungplanetkc.com or go to the British V8 newsletter and contact Curtis Jacobson there. http://www.britishv8.org/index.htm

Bill:

Check your Personal Messages.

Hi Jay! I didn't know this site existed. I'm eagerly awaiting pictures of your car finished! Mine's finally back on the road after the new suspension, and I'm really enjoying it. There's always things to fiddle with, but largely it's as fast and fun as I remember from nearly a year ago.

I've posted some updated pictures to a Picasa album, because I not really computer literate enough to update my original page.
http://picasaweb.google.com/Brust.Roethler

69 MG Midget with 4age 20v power.
www.home.earthlink.net/~roethler

Brust,

Fast and fune eh? Just rub it in why don't you! Soon enough I'll get to drive this thing I am just trying to have everything as mechanically perfect as possible. I keep looking at your front suspension set-up and trying to resist the urge to do something like that too as I need to have this thing running and sorted before I pull it all apart for the winter. The plan is / was / should still be, to take it down to the bare tub after all the mechanicals are sorted to do a proper resto, THEN, glue the new carpet sets in etc.

Meanwhile it looks like Mike (MRsprite) are going to be doing his bugeye too and will be collecting parts soon.

wow @ the suspension work!

+1

Really nice!

Thanks, it wasn't easy, and I didn't get it right the first or second times, but here's to hoping the third time's the charm. If you look at my original build page: www.home.earthlink.net/~roethler you can see that I had different ideas, but I think this one's the winner once I get the spring rates/shock valving sorted. I'm busy getting the rest of it "cleaned up" and looking nicer- especially the dryer hose inlet. What began as a temporary measure 5 years ago turned into a permanent installation. Going for a stainless intake this time.

I am watching this thread with great interest! you guys have done great jobs with your swaps. I have been wanting to do this type of swap since i saw Brust's website. right now i got my Austin Healey sprite shell striped down ready for rust repair. i also have an rx7 rear end on the way along with a t50 gts tranny. im working on getting the other pieces together also. i think i want to go with the black top but im not sure if its worth the extra money. im a long ways off from having a running car but im sure it will be worth it in the end!

Not just any flux capacitor..... Toyota engines require a reticulated cosmic alpha generator to power that flux capacitor, and, while operating that car, one has to wear a tinfoil hat so as to receive messages from aliens. And, if the accumulated steam canister isn't relocated, the car may wind up in the fourth dimensional anti matter field. OH WHAT A FEELING!

Cheers Sherman, Drink another one for me.

Great scott!!!

Update?

Soon, like end of the week soon. Supposedly. Can't say I am not dis-appointed with how long this has taken to get done.

Man, I hope it gets done soon. I want to see it & drive it before I rip apart my Bugeye!

Mike you will,,

Even though mine has taken so long to get finished due to problems with the shop I am using changing locations and him losing most, like ALL, his staff, there is obviously no doubt the swap works. My T-50 GTS transmission is now modified the same way Brusts' is with the earlier T-50 tailshaft assy and the shifter comes out in exactly the right place. The rear cross member is a bit of a pill and what I have works but its not what I want in a "kit" as I'd prefer it to be one piece with a drop in the middle. After the basic geometry is proven for this part we can make a couple different versions and test fit them in some trashed Midget/Sprite shells before we cut ANYTHING on your car. The header is turning out to be a pretty trick looking piece too, I think you'll lik it. Don is going to make a jig from it so we can duplicate it easily.

A programable computer ecu and swap from afm to map sensor setup so the ITBS can run without an airbox and just foam socks on the velocity stacks are all stuff that has slowed the project down.

So are you saying that you are thinking of going into production of a Spridget/Toyota Engine Swap Kit. I think you'll have a market from folks on this list.

Jim,

yes that is the plan. My car is serving as a "prototype" and the kits will come in different stages depending on what version 4AGE you have.

I cant wait to see your car on the road. and i bet you cant wait to drive it! you will have to update us with some more pictures, especially that header. are the chances good on making a small run of the headers? i would really be interested in one if you are. i got rust to fix on my car right now though, but im hoping to have my bodyshell rust free and primered in a couple of months. Did you ever do anything with your front brakes or suspension? keep up the good work

any update on your car?

Not yet Sean, been working my brains out lately.

Keep it up Jay! I'm looking forward to some final pictures and driving impressions. This is a great way to go for a "stock" type conversion. If you plan on forced induction I'd go Miata, but this is a great conversion for those who are willing to "settle" for 150 or so HP. Turbo keeps calling my name- "20v turbo Midget" has a ring to it, don't you think?

150hp will be plenty and is still 50 hp more than my stock Lotus Elan is making with about the same weight. Dons shop builds drifter cars and he had been trying to talk me into going turbo because the header build would have actually been easier. But,,,,, jeesh,,,,, a turbo well done will make 300-350hp. Uh yeah, no thanks. Now the more i read about these the more i want to build another motor, maybe the 7AG mix of several different motors to come out with a long-er ish stroke 1800cc 4AGE. That motor would be the hot set up for an MGB. Swapping V8s into Bs just seems wrong to me.

Chevy V6 in an MGB is a pretty trick setup. Lots and lots of room in the engine compartment when done, a 5 speed, and 75 lbs. lighter than the original lump. And if needed 3.8 with Supercharger. Yeah baby, there's 300 HP available there.

Im still thinking JUST 150hp will be fine in a light car like the midget/sprite. but as others said hanging a turbo off the end of a japanese 4 cylinder in a tiny british sports car does sound like fun. it would be fast/scary for sure. With the 20v silvertop you could also use a rotex supercharger and get close to 280 crank hp out of it like this guy did. The crazy thing is his engine set up is in a lighter car than a midget! talk about frightining.

Jim,

You definately have a poin but my thoughts are more along the lines of "advances" in technology being applied to a classic car. Somehow to me pushrod all iron V6s don't do it for me as a sports car motor. Mow the Ford/Yamaha SHO V6 is a trick powerplant and looks friggin gorgeous in this Austin Healey 100-4, a truely beautiful car!

That is so TRICK!

I can live with that, really nice.

that is a sweet set up right there! it looks right in the car

Man, that Healy is VERY sweet!

If they were still building em today just like that they could not keep em in stock.

That Ford SHO v6 is one of the finest looking engines ever built by a company other than Ferrari in my opinion. I've heard it's heavy though, or I'd strongly consider using it in a Locost style mid-engined car.

Fits into an early Esprit very well I understand. Pleanty of Esprits available cheap with the 907 so messed up the owners don't want to fix them. I am a die hard Lotus fan and even I know that motor sucks. Just got back from the British Conclave here in Denver, lots of Elises couple Europas, 1 early 62 Elite and three or four Esprits.

There was Bugeye Sprite there with BMW motor in it, looked extremely well done. I'll post pics after I download them from my camera.

MGAs,,,,, how do I say this, something about the lines of that car makes me weak in the knees. It may not be next year or the year after but I will own an MGA. The 4AGE has to fit in there easier than my Midget too.

Man I hear you on the MGA. Rolling artwork at it's best. In my opinion the best LBC. I found it hard to beleive that R Lauren does not have one In his collection. Lines are perfect. A designers car..,
Endless loops and no corners on the car. My Daughter is an art major and went with me to a show there were tons of cars but she was drawn to the MGA. She took photos of those cars from hundrered of different angles, she is not a big car buff but this car pulled he in by the foucus ring and never let go it was fun to see. Anybody know who was the desiger of the MGA ?
Any good books on the car? Some day.... Some way...

I agree. As much as I love my Bugeye, the MGA is a very close second. I think that my next fun car will be an MGA.


I saw that BMW powered Bugeye today too. It wasn't too bad at all.....there were a few things I would have done differently, but overall it was a very nicely done car.

How did I miss the BMW Bug Eye???? arrgghhh. Pics, please.

I, too, drooled over the MGAs. The wife had to drag me away. But, here lately I've had a thing for Minis. Don't look....must not pull out checkbook....


I've also been lusting after a BMW 2002 lately, too, but that's another car show.

B

These aren't the greatest pics, but you can see the engine. You may have seen the car, but he did close the bonnet a few times, so you may not have seen the engine when you looked at it.

That is sweet.

on the road yet?

I'd like to say yes,,,, but no.

Getting closer all the time but lots of little snags slowly being overcome. Like, the header build from he,,,, All else is pretty much worked out and should be running by the end of the week.

Expect more pictures later this week.

Jay

Good deal! I can't wait to see it/drive it! BTW.....I still have your Uni-syn (sorry I haven't gotten it back to you). I also got a job here in Denver so the move to Vegas is officially off.......for now.


I still hope to do this swap this winter, so hopefully all the bugs are worked out with yours so the install will go a bit faster. I just don't have the patience for a 6-9 month build.

Mike,

Your install will go incredibly quick. Duplicating my motor mounts, header and rear trans mount and all the geometry should make it a one week job. A 16v 4age would be quicker so the rear heater shelf didn't have to be removed because the 20v motor has the distributor at the back of the head.

And start buying spare axles!

Glad to hear you're staying in Denver guy.

I am leaving for the desert next friday but should be back in a few weeks, just a quick job though, in and out.

??

My header,,,,,

Thanks, that's the fix i needed... should hold me over for a while:)

Well I am supposed to pick the car up on tuesday. But,, I am not holding my breath. That header was custom built and I had the fab guy build a jig to duplicate it. Want one?

not just yet, thanks. I've enjoyed following this thread.

Alright Jay, It's been two more weeks......what's the scoop!?!?!? We're all anxious to see this thing on the road.....I know I want a ride in it so I can decide if my Bugeye will go under the knife this winter!

That #4 tube looks awfully close to the bodywork. I ended up running #4 over the top of the other tubes toward the front, where it meets with #1.

Can you give an idea of where the engine is located in the compartment? Is it centered side to side? Where does the front pulley end up? Is it at the factory tilt or did they mount it vertically? People will want to get this information straight before they buy a header, but it looks great! Would it be rude to ask how much it cost, or how much it would cost for him to duplicate?

I'm still interested in how you run the water lines. I've made some major updates to mine: http://picasaweb.google.com/Brust.Roethler

Probably start on the 2nd rear independent this weekend. I have a solid design, but want to get it into steel to make sure it will fit properly.

Good luck, and I hope it comes together soon!

Brust

Wow, how did i le this post sink to seven pages back?!!!

Brust, yeah the #4 runs over the top to join #1 and that collector is abeam or parallel with the other two pipe collector and those are now joined about seven inches below that. Header is all welded up now and looks great but I don't have any new pictures of it to show.

The motor is centered and sits straight up and down. As far as header cost i am going to say right at five hundred. My water lines run in a pair of hard lines going forward against the block under the header and above the oil cooler. When I tear the motor down to freshen it and install the cams I will carve out the window in back and make the plates to run a 16v waterpump so both water inlets and outlets are at the front but didn't feel like tackling that yet.

My RX7 rear end is getting narrowed as this week, or after X-mas so I won't have to pay for the drive shaft to be modified twice. more money right....

Have to say i hate the spindles in the front suspension of this car but can not afford to do such an extreme front end as your car at the moment. Pretty darn cool though dude and I love looking at pictures of your set-up and trying to figure out how i could make a set of bike shocks work in my car.

So yeah, it is Dec 24th and the car still has not been finished yet,,, when will it end?

Jay,
Did you have any issues finding a shop to narrow the rx7 rear? You are using a gsl-se rear?

Branson,

the shop has said it'll be no trouble with the housing, the driveshaft shop is doing that but the axles have to be sent some place else to have the splines cut. And this is obviously something i can't do myself. I really wanted to hold off on doing this but it has taken so long to get the car done i figured what the heck lets just do it all so i can get the car fully sorted before i pull it down to the "tub" to do the paint and fix a few small rust issues. The rear end is from an early 80s RX7 with a LSD and I think it might be an aftermarket LSD but it came out of an autocross car years ago after the rear brakes failed and the owner just swapped entire rear ends in his RX7 autocross car and then never used this one again. Once it is all the way down I am going to remove all the little unused brackets and hangars/ tuck-hide the wiring so it is ultra clean in the engine bay the way BrianV8s car is.

god this car better be fun when it is done!

the problem I have had is that it seems that if it isnt an 8.8 or 9" ford rear end, most of the street rod shops wont touch it. I was just curious if you ended up having to use a machine shop or a race prep type of place to do the work.

Moser Engineering can get you a set of axles in any length with the correct spline and the spridget bolt pattern.

http://www.moserengineering.com/

now if I can just find a shop to clean off all the brackets and narrow the housing

Jay-
I'll second the Moser recommendation. I cut and narrowed the RX7 housing on my project (see here: http://the-mite.com/mite22.htm ) and had Moser shorten and respline the axles. they did a great job in less than a week.
Just remember that if you want the pinion and driveshaft yoke in the CENTER of the axle, you'll have to shorten each side of the housing and each axle to different lengths. I did not do this and my driveshaft leaves the tunnel at an angle. Good luck!

Mr Mite,

Thanks and I have had the shop made aware now to ensure the thing gets narrowed offset so the pinion is in the middle. Also, I'd like to thank you for the excellant site you have built and all the helpful information. Yours and Brusts site on his Silertop 4AGE site are the only reasons I undertook this. On the other hand,,,, man you two guys have cost me alot of money! HA!

The plan for my car is to just be a occasional driver/trackday/and mountain road car for weekends up above Nederland CO. If it happens to look nice after it's finished that'll be cool too but not that concerned.

At the moment I am trying to figure out how to smash a 2.5 inch exhaust into an oval for more ground clearance under the car because I want to lower it pretty far.

You can have regular 2.5" mild steel tube squished to oval shape using a press. Alternatively, have a look here:

Clicky

What did you end up doing to support the cross brace? I remember you saying you had to chop it out.

--Chris

Mr Sprite. Think I can help you get rid of that old iron you've got under the bonnet now!!! CO is'nt all that far away and I've got friend's and relative's there I need an excuse to visit anyway!! Just say when!! KA

Chris,

cross member that was cut out is going to have a shallow drop welded in place but we haven't done it yet, probably a 20 inch piece of 1x3 rectangular with the ends angle cut. Don't want to do it yet until we know for sure the tailshaft height is correct for the pinion angle. A super seven kit would have been easier!

So did this ever get finished? I am thinking about a swap for my '74, this has got my interest.

Landshark,

yes basically done but being rewired now. The loom to get for a 20v is available from Phoenixtuning and runs about $500 and allows you to put a 20 4AGE ito basically anything. Little tapped out cash wise on this project right now as I am also undergoing a huge engine rebuild on my 64 MGB.

Basiccally,,, not an easy swap by any standard but stupid fast once it is done.

Digging it up again- any new news Jay?