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Fuel Pump Opinions

vette

Darth Vader
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Well I'm getting close to mounting fuel pumps. I want to use one as a back up pump. I've asked about the double ended pump before, but what recomemdations might you have, should I use a double ended pump or should I install two separate pumps of the original style? And can the two separate pumps be mounted in series, one pushing thru the other with only one pump operating at a time. Thanks.
 

Jerry

Darth Vader
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I put two of these in parallel back where the original pump went. They are controlled by a switch which can be used to turn on either of them.
https://www.facet-purolator.com/gold-flo.php
They have a filter built in and a backflow preventer which prevents you from pumping backwards. They have one that pumps 2.75-4 PSI. Works for me.

Make sure the plumbing does not interfer with the flex brake line as the axle moves.

Jerry
BJ8
 
OP
vette

vette

Darth Vader
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Thank you both.
Andrea, I did see your installation after I searched the subject on the forum. I guess I should have done that first. I'm still interested in which way is the better; Series, Parallel, or the double ended. Any opinion?
Dave.
 

RAC68

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Although I would very much appreciate having the convenience of an additional pump during a failure, I have found the reliability of an SU points-triggered pump to be outstanding…especially with the very inexpensive TSV modification discussed previously. To further this exercise, I and 2 friends (and MGB owners) from Calgary, designed and built a fully optical triggering circuit as a plug-in conversion for the SU points-based Pump. This circuit has very good electrical protection (apposed to the problems experienced with the SU transistorized trigger) and, although the PCB will fit inside the original cover and should extend pump life indefinitely (dependent upon the diaphragm), it was disappointing that the loveable tick was lost (no touching moving parts).

I believe the SU pump is quite reliable and, for many years, have stored a separate pump in the boot (diaphragm/solenoid/trigger) to exchange in case of a failure. By not exchanging the full pump, I found I can eliminate the concern and potentially struggling to align and possibly cross strip the body and gas lines during replacement. By jacking, removing the wheel, removing the 7 screws and changing wiring connections, a changover represents a 10 minute job on a BJ8.

However, although I still think mounting a second pump is overkill, I would have appreciated the extra installed pump during a trip a number of years ago. On that trip I had not yet installed the TSV on my installed points-based pump and it had been installed for abut 30 years without failure. Pulling over and determining the problem was the pump, I tried to jack up the car and my original jack simply sank into the ground. Although I still depend upon the spare in the trunk as my saving pump, I also carry a small board under the spare to place under the jack …just in case.

Sorry, as I know this was not what you were looking for but I suggest that if you install, or even carry, all the additional parts that could fail your Healey would be twice its weight.

All the best,
Ray (64BJ8P1)
 
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vette

Darth Vader
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Thank you Ray, Your ideas are always well thought out. I agree that the original SU points type pump is pretty reliable. And to be honest with you, I have never taken one apart. With everything else I am doing to this car, and I am building it for at least one extensive trip, I felt I might as well put in some redundency. I am going to post a picture of the pump I took out of the car because I don't really know what vintage it is. It was working fine when I took it out, but just recently when I was examining it, the small vent tube came off and what appeared to be smaller metal tube dropped on into the hole. Now it Rattles! :smile: So I suppose I am finally going to find out what is inside an SU pump. I believe my pump may be a BJ8 dual polarity pump because this car has had some other BJ8 additions as well from the previous owner. If so a dual system as Andrea did could be in the works because i would only have to buy one pump. (providing I don't ruin this one when I take it apart).
Thanks, Dave.
 

Bob_Spidell

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According to SU pump guru Dave DuBois, one problem with the points pumps is with inactivity the points will develop a film--oxidation, probably--that prevents them from working (the power transistor mod popular a while back actually exacerbates the problem). Dave has developed a points cleaning process but, like everything else on these cars, just driving them regularly helps prevent some problems.
 

RAC68

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Hi Dave,

First, anything that increases your comfort or security when driving your Healey should be done. It is not uncommon for LBC drivers/owners to drive with one ear perked for an odd sound, tensed to diagnose and determine actions for achieving a resolution so driving with one less concern is always a good thing.

The vent I believe you are referring to is mounted on the cover and, although on the Healey is open to the environment under the car, in an MGB it is fitted with a tube and vented into the boot to eliminate the possibility of water entry. Although a new cover can be easily acquired, refitting the tube and restoring your cover with a little JB Weld should be a 10 minute job.

Since your pump runs, a little cleaning and painting may be all that is required to renew. I would, however, carefully dismantle and clean the internals as well as dress and adjust the points. There are a number of web documents describing the rebuild and adjustment of the most commonly used LBC SU Fuel pumps with (https://www.mg-tabc.org/techn-up/fuel_pump/supump2.html) or (https://homepages.donobi.net/sufuelpumps/) providing more than enough information.

As mentioned, be sure to install a TSV on your points-based pump. This $0.12 component is designed to make sure that voltage exceeding a threshold is shunted to ground and can be used to eliminate the potential of high voltage (which can exceed 200V) passing across and burn or fuse your pump’s points. I have chosen a 12V TSV with a threshold of 21 Volts to allow the pump to function during a voltage regulator malfunctions.

Keep in mind that your gas gauge sending unit was designed to use the metal gas line from the tank to the pump for its ground. If you install rubber tubing to link the pumps to the tank, make sure you install a ground line from one of the screws on the sending unit cover to a convenient ground in the boot.

Well, good luck,
Ray (64BJ8P1)
 

Keith_M

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I am curious that no one has mentioned the solid state SU fuel pumps that are now available. They still tick like the originals, but there are no points to oxidize or otherwise wear out. I installed one of these in my BT7, and it has worked well so far (admittedly only about 1300 miles).
 

Bob_Spidell

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I've had three: one was a kit I retrofitted, and two were new from SU. My kit worked for a while then quit; I hear that was common for the kits. The first SS one from SU gave me around 40K miles. I bought another and it failed within a hundred miles. Sent it to Dave and he said it had a loose magnet and needed adjustment.
 

Keith_M

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Bob, that's not particularly encouraging news. :smile: Although I guess if I can get 40K out of mine, it will probably outlast me.
 

RAC68

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Keith/Bob,

From what I have heard, the SU transistorized trigger is sensitive to voltage irregularities. Failures seem random as the Healey’s voltage regulation is not that steady or solid. The reason we started looking into the optical switch approach was to eliminate the sensitivity of the Hall Effect based unit (magnet) and to add power isolation circuitry to protect the unit. Although there was no intent to commercialize the result of out efforts, after success, I found that the simple TSV/points approach was still the cheapest and one of the most reliable.

Ray (64BJ8P1)
 

Ed_K

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I will skip the subject of the points SU vs solid state and go to the original question about the need for a dual/backup pump...
The only thing that ever failed and made me have to call for a flat bed to get home was the fuel pump.
Once in town it was a points SU. Once in my driveway it was a solid state SU ( yes I was very lucky it failed before I backed out of my driveway).
After this experience, I opted to install an option with a backup. I chose to use a double ended SU. I removed the stock single ended mounting bracket and made a double ended pump mounting bracket out of a piece of sheet metal with two MGB type SU pump mounts attached with rivets. Those MGB mounts clamp around the barrel of the SU with a rubber grommet between the mounts and the fuel pump.
The advantage to doing this is that you do not have to cut the original hard lines. You can install the same selector switch as was discussed above or put in two on/off switches so you also have the option of turning both ends on at the same time if desired. I use one side of the pump while driving away from my home and then switch over to the other side on my return trip. That way both ends are being used an I will know right away if one side fails.

Ed
 

Keith_M

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Interesting that the electronic pump is sensitive to voltage irregularities. It would have to be the amplification circuit, I would guess. Do electronic ignitions have the same problem. I think at least some of them use the Hall Effect as well.
 
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vette

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Thanks Ed, I know you and I spoke of this awhile back. I have been looking for some pros and cons of your method verses two separate pumps. I don't know the internal structure of the double ended pump and am curious, are the two operating ends working on the same diaphram and valving in that even thou the two electrical ends might still be working, is there common operating mechanism that can fail and then leave you stranded. Dave.
PS. I am now going to start another thread with the pic of my pump. I'm hoping someone can tell me what I have. I'm having trouble moving pics around right now so it might now work.
 

RAC68

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Keith,

I am not certain and I know others will correct but isn’t there a similar problem with the Pertronix electronic ignition? I believe it also uses the Hall-Effect approach.

Ray (64BJ8P1)
 

Keith_M

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Ray,
I did a little reading, and you're right. The Pertronix electronic ignition units use the Hall effect, and at least some of them are sensitive to voltage. If the voltage goes too low, they quit. Maybe someone more knowledgeable will jump in here (since I'm sure this has been discussed before) but as I understand it the unit will quit working, but will start working when the voltage is raised to an acceptable level. In other words the unit doesn't break -- it just won't work without the correct voltage. I would guess (perhaps naively) that the electronic fuel pumps would be similar.
 

MikeAH100M

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Hi Ed,
Looking through old posts to find information on how/where to mount the solid state double-ended fuel pump in a BN2. Did you mount the double fuel pump in the same location as the old pump? Any chance you have a picture of the set up you used? Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks
Mike
 
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vette

vette

Darth Vader
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Isn't that what Ed K was talking about up above. He said he didn't even have to cut the hard lines to mount the double ended pump.
 
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