Triumph valve springs...

im rebuilding my head today and noticed that there were 3 valve springs per valve... is this normal? ive heard of 2 before but never 3... they were a pain in the ass to take off too

Should be three on the exhaust and two on the intake.

Summers said:

...there were 3 valve springs per valve...

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If you order replacements I think they may supply a set with just 2 springs, supposedly designed to replace the 3.

Summers said:

...they were a pain in the ass to take off too...

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I assume you have a proper tool? Most FLAPS will loan you one no charge (just a refundable deposit).

Yup, factory used 3 springs on the exhaust valves with the 3/8" stems. Somewhere during the TR4 run they went to 5/16" stems on the exhaust valves, and only 2 springs.

I used to have one of those big C-clamp-like things, which worked well on the TR heads. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/WMR-W89409/ But it walked away somehow, and the replacement I got from Sears was worthless. So I made a tool that I've been using ever since. Just a length of heavy flat iron, with a notch on the end to fit around the rocker pedestal stud, and a big hole to match the valve spring retainer. Sorry I don't have a photo handy.

But there is an even easier method to remove them : Lay the head on the bench with a big nut under the valve head (so the valve cannot move). Then set a short length of 1" pipe on the valve spring retainer, and smack it smartly with a BFH. After 2 or 3 hits, the keepers will pop out of place and the retainer will be loose. I stumbled on this method by accident; previously I just used it to loosen the keepers and reduce strain on the compressor.

There are also little pedestals that go under the 3 spring setup. If memory serves, you are supposed to remove the pedestals if you install the aftermarket 2 spring set. But check with your supplier to be sure.

Geo Hahn said:

If you order replacements I think they may supply a set with just 2 springs, supposedly designed to replace the 3.

Click to expand...

Moss still sells both sets (3 spring set is $3 more).

Scott

First post from a Rocky Mountain 67 TR4A hard tail new owner as of this last summer. Engine rebuild is mostly complete but the original head is cracked in between vavles in two cyls so it's a test piece for port work etc. This head had two springs per exhaust valve, 5/16" stems. The other used unrebuilt head I purchased for replacement has 3 springs per exhaust valve and two on the intake. What surprised me was it has 5/16" stems on the exhuast. What I noticed is that the first head with the two springs has considerable wear in the valve spring recess in the head as there is no retainer or washer to make up the space on the OD of the outer spring as it does not fit snug in the recess. Is there a spacer of sorts available to hold the two springs in position or are these odd ball springs, they do look good and I believe they will test out OK. I don't want to load the cam up with the three springs if not necessary due to the reduced mass of the 5/16 stemed valves, I've seen several bad TR4 cams already, and want to keep the spring load down as well as the revs to let the lifters and lobes get to know one another. The head will have hardened seats with stock guides, new valves and milled for 10/1 ratio and final CC. I'm anxious to talk to someone about this; appreciate your experience. I want to place another post on some webers that came with the deal but I will keep it seperate from this one.
Thanks for taking the time to read and if you get through the typo's etc I look forward to your recommendations. Anxious to hear it run for the first time.

Stan

I don't have my documentation handy, but I believe all TR4A should have the 5/16 exhaust stems and 2 springs. The third spring was used only in combination with the heavier 3/8 stems. AFAIK the 2-spring setups were left to wander around within the counterbore on the head, the locating pedestal was used only with the 3 spring setup (and only fit snugly on the early guides, which had a larger OD than the later ones).

I haven't seen a lot of wear in that area; is it possible that the springs were replaced with ones that were not ground flat on the bottom? At any rate, I don't know of a spacer to locate them. Any speed shop will sell you shims that would compensate for the wear (and prevent future wear), but be wary of coil bind especially if your camshaft has more lift than stock.

I also would not even consider re-using valve springs, especially if I didn't know their history. They lead a hard life and original springs are almost certainly sagged by now. They can even break, if the alloy wasn't quite perfect to begin with. And finding a 4A head with 3 springs suggests a certain carelessness, to me.