1275 Rebuild Problem

mxp01 · Nov 4, 2009

I am rebuilding a 1275. Today I installed the pistons in the block. As I was attaching the connecting rods to the crankshaft three (3) of the bolts stripped. At the time I was using my torque wrench which I had set to 50 foot/pounds. That was the setting I got out of the Haynes manual. It said that for color-dyed bolts to use 50 foot/pounds and for phosphated to use 46 pounds. I didn't know the difference, so I went with the higher number.

So can someone recommend next steps? When I reverse the nuts they are just spinning in place (the bolts hold steady). I can buy replacement nuts/bolts but do I have the correct torque settings? And how can I get these things to come free?

Mike Pennell

hpmowog · Nov 4, 2009

According to my factory manual, the torque spec is 45 ft-lbs, or 32-34 ft-lbs if using Nyloc nuts.

DrEntropy · Nov 4, 2009

50 seems high for those, ISTR 45 as "spec" too. As for replacing, I'd say replace 'em all. Summit is a good reliable source.

Hap or one of the other guys here who've been in a 1275 more recently than I will surely see your post and offer good contemporary info.

Guest · Nov 4, 2009

Mike, if your torque wrench was stored "loaded" ( assuming you have the adjustable type and not the "flex" one) it can contribute to reading (click) being too high for the setting. The spring in the wrench gets stretched out over time if stored that way.

Tap LIGHTLY on the end of the rod bolt as you slowly turn the nut. Hopefully this will lift the nut high enough to grab on some better thread and come off.

WARNING: THERE IS A BEARING YOU'RE GOING TO REUSE UNDER THE ROD CAP YOU'RE TAP LOADING AGAINST THE CRANK !!!!!

Go REAL easy !!!!

If you can somehow chock the piston head to keep it from moving, it'll take the load off of the bearing while you tap. If the head is off this should be easy. If the head is on, you can put a piece of rope through the plug hole and rotate to TDC till it stops. Make sure you put it in while it's on it's way up on TDC already as you want the valves closed when you do this.

Best way would be a nut splitter but you might not have room.

You might have to dremel them off, but be real carful not to harm the rod or cap.

Sometimes I will try to tap something under the stripped nut, like a utilty blade or a knife. I really can't recomend that here, as you don't want to damage the cap face where the nut sits.

First try to grab the with a vice grip (not too tight) and pull up as you turn.

Bearings are cheaper than rods, so if push comes to shove, tap a little harder. Remeber, just on the end of the bolt above the nut.

Usually if you just grab alittle fresh meat, it'll start on out. (stripped nuts in general, not nessarily rod nuts.) Hope this helps.

Someone else may have a better way.

DrEntropy · Nov 4, 2009

My attempt would be for the utility knife blade between cap face and nut as you "unwind" the nut. It shouldn't take much to get the nut to grab a good piece of thread. New bearings will NOT like to be whacked on, IMO.

No matter HOW careful you are, grinding it with a Dremel or suchlike will also create a heckofa mess with regard to FOD (Foreign Objects Damage) in the crankcase. Abrasive dust & swarf WILL get into places you can't clean easily. I'd avoid that.

May have enuff clearance for a nut buster when the piston/rod are in the BDC position.

kellysguy said:
Usually if you just grab alittle fresh meat, it'll start on out. (stripped nuts in general, not nessarily rod nuts.) Hope this helps.

Yup. Those are FINE thread fasteners and it shouldn't take much movement to grab ~something~ resembling thread.

Guest · Nov 4, 2009

DrEntropy said:
No matter HOW careful you are, grinding it with a Dremel or suchlike will also create a heckofa mess with regard to FOD (Foreign Objects Damage) in the crankcase. Abrasive dust & swarf WILL get into places you can't clean easily. I'd avoid that.

Didn't even think of that but you're absolutely right. No matter how carefull you are it'll get down there.

I think they'll stand a LIGHT tap load w/o any harm. You should hear my 1500 on a cold start up. " CLACK CLACK CLACK ,,,,". I've been building oil pressure first for a while now before lighing it off, but she still is loose. Got 9K on her since I got her and she did it then just as bad.

I don't like the idea either.

DrEntropy · Nov 4, 2009

I cross me digits every time I light th' Alfa off, too. Built the engine in 2000 and proceeded to chew it up with 100 mile per day commutes. No bottom end startup rattles yet but I'm beginnin' to hear some funky noises at redline. :shocked:

bgbassplyr · Nov 4, 2009

?
Are we sure its the bolts that are stripped and not the nuts?
If the nut is gone, I don't think any ammount of tapping or prying will cause it to bite. I just had this same situation on a lower fulcrum nut on my TR4 suspension and had to split the nut. Thank goodness it WAS the nut and not the fulcrum.
If I'm missing something here, let me know.

Guest · Nov 4, 2009

bgbassplyr said:
?
Are we sure its the bolts that are stripped and not the nuts?
If the nut is gone, I don't think any ammount of tapping or prying will cause it to bite. I just had this same situation on a lower fulcrum nut on my TR4 suspension and had to split the nut. Thank goodness it WAS the nut and not the fulcrum.
If I'm missing something here, let me know.

Either way it'll work. If the nut strips, it'll round the bolt threads enough to flatten them and move nut material around so that the better threads on the bolt can bite if you get it high enough.
(o.k, run-on sentence, I know)

I'm with you, I believe it;s the nuts that are stripped. At least they should be. I'd hate to think the nuts are harder than the bolts.

Doc, run some Lucas oil stabilizer in it. It works wonders !!!! It's the only reason my engine is still alive. I'm not a snake oil guy by any means, but this stuff REALLY works !!!!

I build up oil pressure so much faster now it's not even funny. (so don't laugh) (joke)

I just thought of something else that might work ( two actually) if all else fails.

1. Take a pair of dykes and try to pinch under the nut while turning. Try to grab the nut (make it turn) more than get under it.

If that fails, try to pinch the middle of the nut with bolt cutters just a bit. This may be enough for what little thread is left underneith to grab and start working up. Turn as you pinch like before. I don't know if either one will work but like I said, if all else fails.

( I still can't believe I missed the grindings falling into the motor. RATS.....I'm slipping !!!!

DrEntropy · Nov 5, 2009

Billy said:
Doc, run some Lucas oil stabilizer in it. It works wonders !!!! It's the only reason my engine is still alive. I'm not a snake oil guy by any means, but this stuff REALLY works !!!!

No "rebuild in a bottle" is likely to put babbitt back. :wink:

I'll just keep the tach off th' peg 'til I can commit to pullin' th' thing.

Guest · Nov 5, 2009

DrEntropy said:
Billy said:

Doc, run some Lucas oil stabilizer in it. It works wonders !!!! It's the only reason my engine is still alive. I'm not a snake oil guy by any means, but this stuff REALLY works !!!!

Click to expand...

No "rebuild in a bottle" is likely to put babbitt back. :wink:

I'll just keep the tach off th' peg 'til I can commit to pullin' th' thing.

That's true, but it'll help take up the space and give it a better cushion.

I'm tellin' ya, you'll like it.

Whatcha got to lose?

It can't make it any worse.

I used to feel the same way. I used to sell all of this stuff.

I PURPOSELY avoided Lucas for years just because of ther display.

"Yeah, it'll climb the gears, so will Maple syrup, "whatever.""

I've used every type of goop over the years to help worn out junk and this stuff not only works the best, IT REALLY WORKS !!!! (gotta do something with the store leakers, might as well leak into my motor instead of the garbage).

If you could hear how my motor sounds on a morning cold start you'd use it.

If it lights right off without building oil pressure, it sounds like someone beating a 2X4 against the pan. ( you know the sound!)

I've heard motors crank like this, stop knocking and frag just a few minutes later. ( I've blown up alot of stuff at the auction. Well...I didn't blow it up, it blew up on me.)

Tell you what I'll do. You try it and if it doesn't improve the way it runs, I'll give you back your spot as #1 offender. :jester:

I would've had to rebuild my motor YEARS ago if it wasn't for this stuff.

All the bottle says is "extends engine life" and it DOES !!!

(no, I don't get a spiff when someone buys this stuff and I don't own stock in it but I should.)

DrEntropy · Nov 5, 2009

:lol:

Yeah, I know. Better'n havin' eye-tie cast alloy bits scatter'd all across th' highway. The Purist in me just rails at it. Andy G's magic juice, Motor Honey and all that stuff kinda "works". But I ain't tryin' to sell this thing, I'll be th' mug who has to tear it down and rebuild it. Everything I've seen so-far indicates any of the additives leave a mess behind. I'm more inclined to drop the pan with rod shells in-hand and have a look around.

Guest · Nov 5, 2009

DrEntropy said:
:lol:

I'm more inclined to drop the pan with rod shells in-hand and have a look around.

Been meaning to do that but I think the motor's been rebuilt before. I don;t want to order the wrong parts AND have my car apart. I'll do it this winter.

There's a nerve I have, don't know where it is but it hooks to the car and gives me bad chills when things are loose and revs are up.

I can't really enjoy the ride fully till she's fixed.

The only thing That I've seen leave behind a mees so far is gear oil. We had a motor come in that ole boy filled (notice I said filled) with 90w gear oil. It left the entire inside of the engine a nice golden brown.......almost like Popeye's fried chicken, but with more brown and grease.

lesingepsycho · Nov 5, 2009

Yeah, I know that nerve. I think it is in the right hip where the accelerator leg meets with the gluteus maximus in the bucket seat. :driving:

Somehow it also crosses with the ear drums and has an effect on the hands resulting in the whitening of the knuckles and also accompanied by a slight gritting of the teeth and wincing. :eeek: Also affects the respiratory system with a shortening of the breath thereby causing little beads of sweat to form on the brow. :crazy: Then there's the psychological effects where the little voices come in, one saying :angel: "back off" and the other saying :devilgrin:

"NAIL IT! If it lets go, so be it. You knew it was at the end of its life anyways and now you have an excuse to fix it better than before!"

:devilgrin:

JACK

mxp01 · Nov 6, 2009

hpmowog said:
According to my factory manual, the torque spec is 45 ft-lbs, or 32-34 ft-lbs if using Nyloc nuts.

Do you recommend that I back off all the other nuts and reset them to these new torque specs?

Mike Pennell

DrEntropy · Nov 6, 2009

Don't mean to "horn in" and put words in hpmowog's place, but were it my engine I'd replace ALL the rod bolts with new ones from Summit.

Legal Bill · Nov 6, 2009

I'd buy a new set of bearings and have at it! Why try to reuse the set you over-torqued anyway? I have not bought Sprite rod bearings in a while, but I seem to recall they were pretty inexpensive.

DrEntropy · Nov 6, 2009

Actually, the bearings are designed such that the shells are pinned where they mate at the seams. I'd be surprised if that slight bit of over-torque would cause any distortion. Some Plasti-Gauge would reveal ill fit, looking at the inner (babbitt) edges after assembly lube, retorque and spinning the crank would reveal "smushed" end areas. They'd be "shinier" than the rest of the bearing surface if distorted.

Guest · Nov 6, 2009

DrEntropy said:
Don't mean to "horn in" and put words in hpmowog's place, but were it my engine I'd replace ALL the rod bolts with new ones from Summit.

+1 They don't have any less miles or load on them,

Failure to do so may lead to unscheduled engine disassembly, usually at speed.

I think there is more to worry about with damaging the bearnings from nut removal then a slight overtightening. Nut or bolt will (should) give WAY before cap or rod distorts. If the nut and bolts had that much compression capabiblity, you wouldn't be having the stripping issue.

HOWEVER, for $25 you don't have to worry or think about it, plus you might screw them up anyway getting the nuts off.

That being said, it might be wise to have a set on hand. While you're at it, pick up a set for a '78 Alfa and a '79 1500 as well. :jester:

DrEntropy · Nov 6, 2009

:lol:

I'll settle for a six-pack o' CAB. :wink:

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1275 Rebuild Problem

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