Stub Axle and Bearings

New thread to follow on from my "driving on two wheels" thread. Now I am going to reattach the wheel so that I can move the car into the back yard, a matter of some 50 yards.

First, here is the reattached old stub axle. (I have a new one from Moss, but I don't want to use it yet in case the vertical link's tapered hole for it is damaged or crufty.) I ran a 1/2"-20 die down the threads, which were all chewed up. It hadn't sheared at all, so it appears the PO's nut must have indeed worked loose.



There is a circular felt pad still surrounding the axle hole.

Here's a shot from the underside. You can see the piece that has scraped along the ground - the trunnion? Comments on this?




Here's the inside of the hub. I'm concerned about the gouges around the hole rim, if you can make them out?



Same shot, but with the new bearings from the Moss bearing kit placed where I believe they go, or do I have them the wrong way up?!? (I don't find the Bentley diagram too clear.) Also, I suppose I should grease these up fully before putting them in, even if I'm only going 50 yards?



And with the new felt pad (again: correct way up?)



As usual, comments and advice most welcome! Anything you spot amiss/wrong/weird in these photos?

Thanks,

Julian, I'm not a 6 guy so I can't speak to most of your questions but I sure would grease the bearings. Grease is (used to be) cheap, bearings are not.

I would also like to add my urging on to you about fixing it up and taking it back out and enjoying it. An incident of that type is scary, disapointing, and discouraging, but your taking the best route to start the healing.

Regards, Tinkerman

It's hard to say from the photo but it looks like the bottom of the brass trunnion was ground off. You should not be able to see the bottom of the vertical link but it looks like you can. If so, you'll want to get a new trunnion to keep water and dirt out of the threads than join the vertical link and trunnion.

If the surface where the bearing fits the hub is not messed up, you may be able to get a machine shop to clean up the rest of the hub so you can re-use it. Again it's hard to say from the photo.

Finally, it looks like the bolt that forms the sway bar link was also tweaked when it hit the pavement. That may need replacing also.

Hang in there.

Bryan

BryanC said:

Finally, it looks like the bolt that forms the sway bar link was also tweaked when it hit the pavement. That may need replacing also.

Click to expand...

Minor point, but that isn't the setup I have. That flat piece coming across from the control arm looks like something 'home made' to me. Mine has a C-shaped bracket arrangement on the control arm- can be seen in the Moss catalog part #160.

Pete

Julian,

The trunnion, the hub, and the sway bar link need to be replaced. The gouges have ruined the hub. I would put the inner bearing into the old race to move the car into the back yard. I would than remove the new inner bearing and install it and the inner bearing race into the replacement hub. I believe you are just showing us the alignment of the parts in this photo.The inner bearing race is in the old hub. Do not stack 2 of them up. I would not install the new felt pad to move the car into the back yard. Save it for the final assembly.

Glad you made it through this experience safely.

Phil

Julian, get a little container of good wheel bearing grease. I prefer grease for a boat trailer. Strong enough fo 6's and resistant to water. You already have some grease between the two races(I can see it in the hub) Hopefully you bought the bearings as sets. bearings and outer races. The races need to be replaced when the roller assemblies are replaced. Timken and Sk make updated bearings that have a number of rollers(looks like your bearing assembly is updated). Take the can of grease and put a dollop in the palm of your hand. With the other hand pull the bearing assembly through the greae, packing the grease between the rollers, from the large opening to the small opening, when the grease starts exiting from the small end between a couple of rollers, rotate the bearing assembly for the next couple of rollers. Takes a few minutes, but inexpensive and packs the bearings PROPERLY.

I have not used the felt seals in better than 20 years. Use More modern Chicago Rawhide, or National. Any good bearing supply house will have them catalogued for you. looks like you're gonna be back on the road soon.

Take the new bearing out of the race. It will fit in the hub better.

Use the old race to go the 50 yards.
.

Julian-

I agree with Stirkle & Phil on this one - clean up the old inner race which is still in the hub. Check the surface of the race and see if it is scored in any way. If not, grease up and put in the new bearing temporarily to move the car. Don't worry about the felt seal at this point, when you get it relocated you can pull the old race out and replace it with your new one.

Trunnion does indeed look bad, plan on replacing. Not sure if the hub is bad, but the rotor does look bad unless that score can be removed.

Also, side point on the sway bar. That looks like and addco aftermarket mount, the bolt is bent, but all you need is to replace the bolt so it will be an easy fix. If you can get someone to donate a replacement vertical link and caliper bracket, the remaining replacement parts aren't that expensive.

Keep with it!

Randy

I think you should look at the vertical link where the caliper mounts. Both ears were broken off the caliper and that possibly bent the mounting ears on the vertical link.
IMO I would replace the hub. What you have there won't hold the grease in.

I have a good used trunnion from my 4A (same part as TR6) that you can have (you pay shipping). I also have a new set of rubber control arm bushings that you can also have. You might want to make a list of all parts that are needed and see what we can offer to make you whole again.

Once you get it moved. take detailed photos of both sides with the wheels off and we can help make the list for you. And hopefully find the used parts to get you going.

On the team.net TR list, Justin Wagner (you met him on the day this happened) gave a brief rundown of you car's damage. He thinks that the frame may also be tweaked but it will take a closer inspection (photos).

Sorry to again sound a bit contrary -- and repetitive, but if I were doing this, I'd pay someone $50 to hoist the car back into my yard, after which I would obtain good used "big" parts (vertical link, hub, etc.) and replace "wear" parts (trunnions, bushings, bearings, rotor, etc.) with new as needed. With all the flailing about that likely took place, I'd not want to waste a brand-new set of bearings on a stub axle that might be bent or otherwise damaged, or a hub that might not hold them properly.

Seeing as a decent set of wheel bearings and seals costs about what a minimum tow charge would be....

Oh, and I'd also make very sure that the RH stub axle is properly fastened. :wink:

Bummer Julian !!

Here's a decent "How to" for the front
wheel bearings.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/260591/wheelBearingsFinal

It does appear DPO Pedro has performed some
of his work upon your front suspension.

best wishes,

dale

Julian, the trunnion is toast but will easily hold up getting you into the back yard. The inner bearing assembly is comprised of the bearing race, the bearing, the bearing grease seal, and the felt seal. It looks to me like most of the gnarled stuff is the bearing grease seal (a metal ring like grease dam that presses into the hub). So, you need to tap the old race out of the hub, which will also push that damaged seal out, or you might be able to pull it out if you can get a good purchase on a part of it.

Superb input everyone: many thanks. I need to digest it all, and look closely again at the problem areas, and then report back.

I also need to take a look at the other front wheel situation.

Dale: thanks for the writeup, it's great!

PeterK: do you have a URL pointer to Wagner's comments - I'd be very interested to read them?

Julian,
I agree with Andrew's advice. I had a bump in my TR4A and found that the vertical link had bent in the accident.
It is always difficult to know where to stop, but certainly I would recommend a replacement vertical link, hub, trunion, stub axle, brake disc, caliper and all of the various bearings, seals and bushes. When you have it apart you may as well replace as much as you can.
I would also check those components very carefully on the other side when you get a chance.
Remember that there is a lot of energy coiled up in that spring!
Good luck with it all.
Nick

jjbunn said:

Superb input everyone: many thanks. I need to digest it all, and look closely again at the problem areas, and then report back.

I also need to take a look at the other front wheel situation.

Dale: thanks for the writeup, it's great!

PeterK: do you have a URL pointer to Wagner's comments - I'd be very interested to read them?

Click to expand...

Here it is:
https://www.team.net/mharc/archives/html/fot/2008-08/msg00341.html

Julian,

I would not worry about grease or felt at this point (except for getting any remains of the old ones out). Just get it back together enough to limp into the backyard (assuming you don't take Andy's good advice about having it towed there). You might even walk back along the accident site to see if the old bearing cone is lying around, just to use for that 50 yards. I'd be happy to give you an old one, but likely there is no way I could get it to you promptly.

Also, one point not covered in Dale's treatise: The new felt seals are frequently thick enough to cause problems when setting bearing clearance. The best solution to this problem, IMO, are the instructions given in the TR4/A factory workshop manual; which specifies to set the bearing clearance <span style="font-weight: bold">before</span> installing the seal, then marking the nut and counting turns when you remove it so you can put it back in the same place after installing the seal. The seal will quickly wear to fit in service, so no need to worry about trimming it otherwise.

Julian- a word of caution.

Coil springs can kill you dead.

Don't go messing around with that trunnion
or much of anything else until you have a spring
compressor installed.

d

I have now replaced the wheel, using the old inner race, new inner bearings, old felt, old stub axle, and old outer bearings. I did use a bit of good grease on the bearings, just for the heck of it.

Then I lowered the car down on that side, and jacked it up on the other to take a look at the wonky wheel.

Turns out the wheel itself is warped, and that is the cause of the wonkiness: the rotor still turns freely on that side, and I couldn't see any evident damage.

Here's a photo of the inner side of the wonky wheel:



(I don't know if you can see the warp on the part of the wheel that bolts to the hub.)

This presents me with a more difficult problem as regards getting the car 50ft into the back yard: in its current state, it wont rotate, so I need a spare wheel, which I don't have :frown: I do have a spare set of Design 90 Porsche wheels, but of course the bolt pattern is wrong. Hmmmmm. Just thinking aloud, really.

Wow, that's rather startling damage to a wheel, but I guess it's understandable how it could have happened, given the circumstances.

Hmm...maybe you can get hold of Justin Wagner; he must not be that far away if he went by as it happened. He's got a TR or two and might be able to lend you a wheel for "limping up the driveway"?