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brake line flares

Greg_Blake

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
OK lets here from the experts. What is the correct flare for a TR hydraulic brake line. Can you recomend a good flare tool that can make theses flares?

I need to make new lines for my project. I know there are premaid kits, but that won't solve all my problems so I think I would rather make them all.

Thanks,

Greg
 

TRTEL

Jedi Trainee
Offline
Greg, While not an expert I have tried this very thing. The real problem here is that you can't create the same type of flare. On a mass produced line there is no reduction in wall thickness at the flare from the max diameter down to where it necks back into the line. It partly rolls that outer edge back as the flare is stamped into the line. When you flare a line at home wall thickness is reduced at a constant rate out to the edge. The theoretical risk is that at some point in the future a crack could begin to propogate from that point of weakness (along microfractures that you create in the flaring process). This potential problem could be reduced by using a more malleable alloy than a mild steel.

Tom Lains
TS8651 & 58107
 
T

Tinster

Guest
Guest
Offline
Hola Greg,

If you proceed with your brake pipe bending project,
I will gladly contribute some $$ if you are able to
bend for me the two curved pipes that connect the brake
master cylinder with the valve below it.

I have been unable to source this pre-bent pipe part.
No one seems to pre-bend them anymore. They are not available here on the island except as straight bare
pipe at Home depot.

I will gladly pay for time and effort to fabricate
a set for my 1969 TR6. I already purchased the correct master cylinder and I have the correct valve. All I need
are the two pipes.

Thanks,

dale
brakepipes.jpg
 

Cheapsnake

Jedi Trainee
Offline
Greg, I have to second what TRTEL has said - you're better off buying pre-flared lines off the shelf and bending them yourself. I flared all my own lines on my Cobra, actually most of them twice before I got them to seal and if I were to do it again I would, without a second thought buy pre-flared lines. You'll spend at least twice the time and get half the reliability flaring lines yourself and that's not a reflection on your workmanship, just a fact of life. You can buy the pre-flared lines in 6" increments and the connections themselves are an SAE standard. However, clutch connections may be metric. Good luck.

Tom
 
G

Guest

Guest
Guest
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Actually this is one of the easier tasks to do. You can get a double flare kit from amazon for about $30. I did all my rears, and made adapters on the front for the Toyota conversion I did using it with not a single problem. The trick is to make sure the pipe is clamped in there TIGHT when you make the flares.

Also Eastwood sell these pliers that make bending the lines a breeze. It's much easier to get a tight radius with them than with either a pipe bender or by hand.
 

TRTEL

Jedi Trainee
Offline
Alan, you've piqued my interest. I very familiar with Eastwood, but not amazon. Info please.

Tom Lains
TS8651 & 58107
 

macino62

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
you can get one of these at any parts place. napa, autozone, pep boys, etc.

Alan's right...this is a cake walk job. Just get a nice round wheel tubing cutter with a built in debur tool, and the flare set. it will come with all of the dies for different size tubing.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Guest
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you've never heard of amazon.com?
they are selling car parts and tools now. i buy stuff only because they offer free shipping...
 

TRTEL

Jedi Trainee
Offline
As soon I hit the continue button that thought did flash through, but I honestly hadn't purchased a book from them in over two years. Figures though. Thanks.

Tom Lains
TS8651 & 58107
 

Brosky

Great Pumpkin
Offline
Actually, in most states(probably all)that do safety inspections, single flares are not allowed on any brake line. PA was very strict and RI is as well. As you said, it must be a double flare to protect against blowing the line out on a full lock up.

Years ago, when in the business, I saw many cars involved in accidents caused by single flared lines splitting at the connection under pressure. Luckily the cars came to a stop (not quickly enough) and no one was killed, but there was collision damage and some cases it was serious.
 

macino62

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
No inspections here in Indiana, Paul. No emissions (except for 2 counties) either.
 

Alan_Myers

Luke Skywalker
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Hi all,

I posted a response the other day, but it seems to have disappeared.

I have to strongly disagree with some of the other responses to your questions.

Greg, please look closely at the fittings on your TR3 when you disassmble the brake lines. I think you will find there are *two* types of pipe end shapes used on your car. If so and you were to use double flares throughout, it's possible some of them will leak and that might lead to brake failure.

You should find these two types of pipe ends:

One is the standard double flare. This is pretty easily made with any brake line flaring tool, with a little practice and care. Just as the name implies, it's a two-step process to make this flare on the end of the pipe. It's well illustrated in the instructions that come with the tool, I'm sure. This type fitting is used on our older TRs (I dunno about the newer ones) anywhere the fitting on the end of the pipe is "female" and what it attaches to is "male". Examples are the upper end of the flex hose coming off the clutch slave cylinder, or the front caliper flex hoses where they attach to the brake pipes.

The other type of end you will find on the pipes is often called a "British bubble". This is used wherever the fitting on the end of the pipe is "male" and what it attaches to is "female". Examples are all the fittings at the five-way connector down on the RH front frame rail of your car. Also both master cylinders on my TR4 use this type. (But, I don't know for sure if TR3 MCs are the same, they are quite different from TR4.) This is not a single flare, per se, but the "British bubble" can also be formed with the standard flaring tool. It's actually faster and easier because you just skip the second step (done for the double flare) and only do the first step. What you end up with is a small "bubble" on the end of the pipe.

I see that both types of ends and how they are formed are shown at the link above, that Mike provided in his post.

Note: There is also a special tool for making "British bubble" pipe end fittings. However, I've never had any trouble forming one with the standard, cheapo tool found at most auto parts stores.

How easy this whole job is depends to some degree upon the material of the brake lines you buy.

The popular "Kunifer" or copper/nickel type found in many of the kits is the easiest to form. It's also more easily dented or damaged, actually is not U.S. DOT approved for new car manufacturers in the U.S., but is in wide use throughout the world by many major car makers so I wouldn't have any concerns about using it.

OEM style steel with some sort of protective coating are a bit harder to work with, but still can be formed with the standard tool (it will wear out rather quickly). This is standard OEM on cars built in the U.S., meets DOT standards, but is the stuff that rusts and corrodes eventually. These types of lines are the most widely available and are cheap.

Forget about making up stainless steel lines yourself unless you want to invest in some very expensive, hydraulically-assisted and specially hardened tools. S/S is tough stuff and is usually best just bought pre-formed and ready to install.

P.S. You can also identify which type or pipe end to form by looking closely at the fitting where it will be seated. If you see a cone shape protruding towards you in there, it uses the double flare. If, however, it is concave such as might be done at the bottom of a drilling, then the bubble type end is used.
 

Sleipnir

Member
Offline
Alan's exactly right. You'll find bubble flares more often than not on all British cars. I use the cheapie fare tool to make them and after 15 years of doing it I haven't had leaker in about 12. It really is quite easy, just practice on some scrap line first. And they pass RI state inspection!

Erik
Her Majesty's Auto Service
 

Brosky

Great Pumpkin
Offline
Erik would know about RI inspection better than me. It's been 14 years since I got out, so I defer to him. Actually, I never saw a failed bubble flare, so I guess that they were OK back then as well. I guess that they had to be or we couldn't have sold the cars legally.
 

StagByTriumph

Jedi Warrior
Country flag
Offline
I just buy mine prebent and made up from Classic Tube.

I mean, then even have them for a Stag!!

Steel or Stainless Steel with the correct bubble flares and UNC threaded ends.
Stag set is about $179 for steel, $199 for Stainless and includes all the lines from the Master Cylinder out to teh calipers and slave cylinders.

https://www.classictube.com/
 
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