Hi Matt,
Both Valasquez Cream and Spa White were used on TR4 in '61. But Valasquez was dropped very early on, probably before l962, and is really quite yellowish and pretty far off-white. In fact, it borders on a pale yellow. Spa White continued until 1963 and is a somewhat purer white, but still noticibly off-white. New White replaced Spa in 1963 and is more of a bright white. It was also used on TR4A (code #19). Lucky for them, TRs built from 1964 on have a color code number stamped right on the commission plate! (No such luck for us.)
January through March of 1963 saw a number of color changes on TR4. This was in the CT19xxx-CT21xxx range, so doesn't effect either of our cars. It was during this time that Spa White was replaced by New White, Powder Blue was replaced by slightly darker Wedgewood Blue, and British Racing Green was replaced by a slightly lighter Triumph Racing Green. (There are lots of heated disputes about the correct mix for both these greens, BTW.) Only Signal Red and Black were used consistently throughout the TR4 production run.
TR4A picked up and used the same colors as TR4, but added Royal Blue in 1966 and Valencia Blue - a color that's usually more associated with TR250/5 - during the last few months of TR4A production.
Do you know about the Build Certificates at British Motor Industry Heritage Trust? You can order one for your car, by the commission number, at
https://www.heritage-motor-centre.co.uk/sectionpages/archive_index.html. It will nearly always show the original exterior paint color, interior trim and a variety of other things, taken from the factory records that are on file at BMIHT. The certificate I got for my car confirms it was Spa White with Midnight Blue leather interior (an "unofficial" color combination!) and that the engine is original, it was fitted with a heater, etc. It also tells me, yes, my car entered the U.S. through the Port of San Francisco, although I actually bought it in Colorado, 3rd- or 4th-hand back in the mid-1970s (and subsequently happened to return it here to the SF Bay Area in 1996.)
I have a jpeg of Triumph color chips from 1963. I'd be happy to email it to you, if you wish (it's 1.5 MB). However, I have to warn that it's a scan of a very old page that was somewhat faded and stained. I'm not sure the colors are very true anymore and I've seen better color chip representations on the Internet (just Google for them). Unfortunately, the different paint manufacturers also have tended to rename colors quite a bit (For example, this particular Martin Senouir chart doesn't show "New White" but lists #19 code next to what they call "Pure White").
Hi Andy,
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I question this statement. The "wood veneer" dash kit listed as an option in earlier TR4 spare parts catalogs. I would say it's far less common, but am pretty certain it was available earlier....
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I have (only) a First Edition TR4 Spare Parts Catalogue, in which no "veneered facia" option is listed.
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Do you find a year listed anywhere in that TR4 Spare Parts Cat? The TR4 Cat I have is old, but is definitely a reprint, I don't see a year anywhere. It's "Part No. 510978" and inside on the title page has "Second Edition, 1st Printing". A real giveaway that it's a reprint is that even though there is a "Stanpart" logo on the front, there is also a British Leyland "Puckered Sphincter" on the back (where else would it be, eh?).
Another "clincher" (uh, sorry about that one, too) is that there are change points noted up in the CT35xxx range, indicating the catalog must be from at least, what, '64/65? OTOH, a TR4A Cat I have is definitely a dealer original and has a handful of the factory revisions added in the front.
The "Veneer Facia" I mentioned is *not* listed where I originally thought it would be... it's not in the last few pages of the TR4 Cat along with all the other Accessories & Special Order items. (However, the Wooden Steering Wheel is listed there.)
Instead, the Veneered Facia Panel Assembly is listed along with all the other dash parts next to Plate AP, although it's not actually illustrated on that plate (or anywhere else). Next to the Assembly listing and breakdown of individual parts its noted as "Special Order only".
Oddly, I just noticed the Ash Tray Assembly - Front is also noted as "Special Order only". Hmmmmm, I've never seen one *not* fitted, always thought it was standard item... And also never seen a "Rear" ashtray in a TR4!
Hey, I don't take the catalogs totally on faith. They have their share of errors and ommissions, too. It's common for an old illustration plate to continue to be used if it's "close enough", although parts might have changed a little in some way. (Case in point: The 4-gauge panel shown in Plate AP is clearly the early polished type with the cross-hatch pattern, that was only used through CT4398. Both it and the later, more common type are listed with their respective part numbers, though.)
Something contradictory in this particular TR4 catalog, the Touch-In Paint you mentioned shows only Spa White (Part #516516 Pencil, 516515 Spray), but completely omits the New White used from CT21xxx on!?
And, in the Interior Trim section of the catalog, only Black, Red and Blue are listed, although I know for a fact there were at least two reds and two blues (In TR4 there were: bright Red, dark red which might be "Matador", Midnight Blue and Shadow Blue).
Well, we've hijacked this thread just about as far as we can take it, haven't we?! I think the point is, though, that no matter how hard we try to determine "originality", there will still be some grey areas and room for heated discussions amongst ourselves and disputes with concours judges! Otherwise, wouldn't it all be dull and boring? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I forgot to mention earlier, my '62 TR4 has never had a wood dash fitted, even though it wasn't sold/registered until '64, by which time Bill Piggott says it's fairly certain the dash kits were available.
Finally, depending upon the condition of your wood dash, Matt, if it's original it might be possible to refinish it or even re-veneer just the front. The main concern would be if it's starting to de-laminate. You might want to get a copy of Bill Piggott's "Original Triumph TR4/4A/250/5/6" to better see what an original dash looked like, in terms of grain and color. I take the photos in there with a grain of salt because the original stain will definitely bleach out a bit lighter over the years, and the varnish tended to yellow a bit. However, this is probably the best way to get some idea of color and appearance. As previously noted, a TR4 dash would have a glossy finish.
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