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Thread: TR4 Wooden Dash

  1. #1
    Jedi Trainee pa297pass's Avatar
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    TR4 Wooden Dash

    Hi all:

    Was the wood dash an option on all years of TR4s? My new '62 has what looks like a homemade wood dash and I was wondering how I could determine if it originally came with one. I can see some white paint around the glovebox door, but then the car was white originally so that might not mean anything.

    Thanks for your help.

    Matt

  2. #2

    Re: TR4 Wooden Dash

    My understanding is that the wood dash was an option only on very late TR4s and was standard on TR4As.
    Raymond L. Hatfield
    Little Rock, AR
    <ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]'65 TR4A &quot;Chance&quot;[*]'73 Stag &quot;Molly&quot;[/list]

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    Yoda TR4nut's Avatar
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    Re: TR4 Wooden Dash

    Mike-

    If your glove box door is metal, then I'd say for sure you had a metal dash - the wood option would only have a wood door. From the factory parts manual, they list the veneer dash as a special order for the TR4, but don't say if it was offered after a specific commission number. It seems like they started showing up in the 64/65 model years though.

    The arm on the glove box door is a straight looking arrangement for the wood dash, on the metal one I believe it is curved.

    Another potential clue would be the ash tray - the bracket for the wood dash option is shorter than on the metal dash to accomodate the thickness of the wood dash.

    Randy
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    Luke Skywalker Alan_Myers's Avatar
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    Re: TR4 Wooden Dash

    Hi,

    Perhaps a llttle more info than you wanted! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

    First of all, it seems as if the department at the Triumph factory where the dashes were made only ever had one can of paint [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]. Every TR4 came with a white-painted dash, no matter what color the exterior of the car was originally painted. In fact, the color used was Spa White (an off-white) and it even continued to be used after the cars' exterior white color choice was changed to New White in later TR4 production.

    So, IMHO a TR4's metal dash will have always been painted Spa White, even if a wood dash was later installed over it.

    I'm pretty certain Spa White painted dashes actually continued to be used through most if not all of TR4A production, too, perhaps even on into the TR250/5 era when wood dashes were standard.

    Note: Bill Piggott states the white color change occured about CT21xxx. New White is a slightly "purer" white. I believe that is true for the exterior. However, he states the dash color was changed at the same time, which I disagree with from seeing with my own eyes Spa White that was still used on dashes at least through most TR4 production, and possibly even on some TR4A dashes, hidden under the wood facia.

    Also note: Moss Motors lists Spa White as the only exterior white color choice of all TR4 and 4A. I know for certain this is incorrect. Spa White was a carry over from TR3A production and was replaced by New White during TR4 production, at CT21xxx/mid-1963, as noted above.

    During TR4 production - at least early on when the TR4 spare parts catalog was first compiled - only a left-hand steering wood dash kit was offered as a special order option. (Granted, not a lot of RHD cars were being built, the vast majority were exported to LHD countries, especially the USA.) Most likely a lot of TR4 wood dashes were installed at dealerships, since it was an optional/special order item available in kit form. I would imagine it might be ordered fitted at the factory, too, but that would usually only happen if the wholesaler or dealership chose to do so, or if a customer placed an order very far in advance. However, many TR4 were built and stockpiled - there were many months supply built up at times - its most likely the dashes were retrofitted even if done at the factory.

    We can pretty much assume that practially all the cars for the first few years' production shipped with a painted dash. So, as a '62 it's a pretty sure bet that your TR4 left the factory with a painted dash and had the wood dash panel added later. The question then is whether that was done by the dealer or by one of the previous owners.

    Note: Piggott states that wood dash kits first became available for TR4 in mid- to late-1964. I question this statement. The "wood veneer" dash kit listed as an option in earlier TR4 spare parts catalogs. I would say it's far less common, but am pretty certain it was available earlier. Perhaps it was just not yet recognized as such a highly popular item with the buying public and was not yet very well promoted. It's not even illustrated in the TR4 parts catalog, only listed as line items.

    Even if Piggott is correct, an earlier car could still easily have been fitted with a wood dash kit by a dealer in 1964 or later.

    Also, FYI, the TR4 parts catalog lists an optional/special order wooden steering wheel to match. I don't know who the manufacturer was, though, and it's also not illustrated.

    The TR4A catalog, shows three wood dash arrangements. These were left-hand and right-hand steering versions, plus a third LHD version specifically for France. (I'd guess there was some additional switch or lighting - or possibly something omitted - on models destined for France, requiring a slightly different dash.)

    &lt;I must amend my earlier statement that TR4A weren't always fitted with wood dashes, after looking it up in an original TR4A parts catalog I happen to have. Yes, Raymond, you are correct in that TR4A came with wood dashes standard. This is confirmed because the TR4A spares catalog doesn't even list a metal dash door, just a wooden one. The catalog also fully illustrates all the parts for the wood dash, and shows it's installation over a metal dash that clearly comes with holes predrilled for the wood mounting screws.This is confirmed by Bill Piggott, as well. Could have sworn I'd seen some TR4A with original, painted dashes over the years, but I guess not!&gt;

    A clue that might help is the TR4's switch plinth. If the original were re-used when the wood dash was installed, the base of the plinth would have to be trimmed to accommodate the extra thickness of the wood. Except for very early cars, I think it unlikely a dealer or the factory would have trimmed the plinth, but instead would have just changed it out for a different version that was made specifiically for use with the wood dash. So, if you find the plinth has been trimmed to fit on the back side that might be a strong clue a previous owner installed the dash themselves.

    Early TR4 used a formed fiberboard plinth, covered with some sort of vinyl/textured material (a bit cheesy and prone to disintegrate over the years). At some point, TR4 started using an all-plastic plinth, with the surface texture molded right into it. I don't know exactly when this change occured, but I still have the original fiberboard plinth (reinforced with fiberglass resin years ago) from my car which was built in late '62 - CT17602L (and actually first registered in 1964, to give you some idea how stockpiled these cars were!)

    So, the materials of the plinth might also be a clue whether or not the original or been replaced, but after than look to see if it was trimmed down to accommodate the extra thickness of the wood. (Note: Reproduction TR4 plinths, when available from Triumph vendors, now seem to *all* be just the molded plastic type and sized to accommodate a wood dash. That means those of us with a metal dash are simply out of luck unless we can find a used, original one. Took me years to find a good replacement! TR4A plinths are different, too - "upside down" from TR4.)

    If your car is very early, somewhere in the 4-digit chassis numbers (possibly a '61 build) the original four-gauge panel in the center of the dash would have been bright chrome-like finished aluminum with a cross-hatch stamped pattern that matches the trim plate behind the switches on the plinth. The gauge panel was changed early on to a black vinyl covered steel panel, probably due to reflections from the bright metal making the gauges difficult to read. The switch trim panel was not changed until the plinth was revised for TR4A.

    The reason I mention this is that - with a wood dash now fitted that panel was likely removed and tossed - if you are considering converting back to a painted metal dash and are concerned about originality you'll likely be looking for a replacement panel and there are two different ones, depending upon the exact commission number of your car. I think Bill Piggott lists the exact gauge panel change point in his "Original TR" book (let me know if you want I can look it up for you).

    The metal glovebox door was usually thrown away, too, when a wood dash was installed. The doors are all the same, though, just a little tricky to find. Yes, as noted, the hinges were different for the metal door, incorporating a curved restraint that only allowed the door to open to a flat, level position. Wood doors have hinges attaching to the wood facia, and a separate restraint.

    The material of the wood dash itself might be another clue. It's not uncommon for homemade dashes to be made with solid wood. However, *all* Triumph wood dashes are plywood (possibly marine-grade) with painted or dark-stained edges and a veneer of finer wood on just the front surface. Plywood was used deliberately (on many other cars too, including Rolls Royce, Jaguar, etc.) since it's much stronger and far more resistant to warping.

    And, wood facia were fastened to the metal dash underneath with chrome-headed screws on all the earlier cars. At some point in mid-TR6 production, these were changed to black-finished screws. Only problem is, screws might have been replaced in years past, so this is only a vaguely useful clue.

    According to Moss Motors, TR4/4A (and TR6) dashes were veneered with walnut wood on the front. TR250/5 are mahogany. None originally used teak, which is now common. And none used a real "burl wood", also now sometimes offered. The veneer typically shows the long length of the grain, with little or no knot or burl.

    There has also been some dispute about exactly how glossy the finish should be on the wood dashes in various models. But, it's pretty well accepted that TR4 and TR4A had high gloss varnish, while TR250/5 and TR6 had a low-gloss finish to reduce reflections.

    All in all, it's really up to you whether or not to use a wood dash in a TR4. The Spa White painted dash of TR4 was pretty unique to that model and certainly makes it stand out. But, retro-fitting wood dashes has been so common that - if it's what you prefer, no judge in any car show would ever be able to fault you for it.

    One last note:



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  5. #5
    Moderator Andrew Mace's Avatar
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    Re: TR4 Wooden Dash

    Just a few comments on Alan's excellent treatise!
    [ QUOTE ]
    ...Every TR4 came with a white-painted dash, no matter what color the exterior of the car was originally painted. In fact, the color used was Spa White (an off-white) and it even continued to be used after the cars' exterior white color choice was changed to New White in later TR4 production....Note: Bill Piggott states the white color change occured about CT21xxx. New White is a slightly "purer" white. I believe that is true for the exterior. However, he states the dash color was changed at the same time, which I disagree with from seeing with my own eyes Spa White that was still used on dashes at least through most TR4 production....

    [/ QUOTE ] I agree. And there's certainly precedent of sorts for continued use of Spa White on the dash. A Triumph Service Bulletin [S-62-48; issued January 2, 1963] noted that the color of road wheels on all models would change from the "silver aluminum" to Spa White. This would continue probably through sometime in 1968, depending on the model. Certainly Heralds, Spitfires and 2000 sedans had Spa White wheels up to sometime in 1968, even if the body color was the #19 white phased in around 1963 or so. (That I can verify, having in the past owned an original #19 white Herald and 2000 sedan...both with Spa White wheels.)

    [ QUOTE ]
    Also note: Moss Motors lists Spa White as the only exterior white color choice of all TR4 and 4A. I know for certain this is incorrect. Spa White was a carry over from TR3A production and was replaced by New White during TR4 production, at CT21xxx/mid-1963, as noted above.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Agreed again! For example, the Second Edition TR4A Spare Parts Catalogue lists only FIVE colors of touch-up paint, one of which is "White" (not Spa White).

    [ QUOTE ]
    During TR4 production - at least early on when the TR4 spare parts catalog was first compiled - only a left-hand steering wood dash kit was offered as a special order option....Most likely a lot of TR4 wood dashes were installed at dealerships, since it was an optional/special order item available in kit form. I would imagine it might be ordered fitted at the factory, too, but that would usually only happen if the wholesaler or dealership chose to do so, or if a customer placed an order very far in advance.

    [/ QUOTE ]I'd tend to think that Standard-Triumph USA and/or their regional distributors might well have ordered numerous TR4s from the factory with the wood dash fitted, once it became available. It certainly added a good bit of British "feel" and "elegance" to the TR4, setting it apart from such semi-competition as the MGB. Besides, the lowly Herald 1200s all had wood dashes (with exception of some non-US export markets), so it might be easier to deal with the added expense of a TR4 wood dash rather than try to explain why the "economy" car next to it in the showroom had a wood dash while the big sports car didn't!

    [ QUOTE ]
    Note: Piggott states that wood dash kits first became available for TR4 in mid- to late-1964. I question this statement. The "wood veneer" dash kit listed as an option in earlier TR4 spare parts catalogs. I would say it's far less common, but am pretty certain it was available earlier. Perhaps it was just not yet recognized as such a highly popular item with the buying public and was not yet very well promoted. It's not even illustrated in the TR4 parts catalog, only listed as line items.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I have (only) a First Edition TR4 Spare Parts Catalogue, in which no "veneered facia" option is listed.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Also, FYI, the TR4 parts catalog lists an optional/special order wooden steering wheel to match. I don't know who the manufacturer was, though, and it's also not illustrated.

    [/ QUOTE ]I've heard from a few sources that Formula was the company providing these, but I've also heard that they might have been Les Leston (although the latter usually would have had the "LL" trademark on one of the spokes; either, of course, was available aftermarket).

    [ QUOTE ]
    The TR4A catalog, shows three wood dash arrangements. These were left-hand and right-hand steering versions, plus a third LHD version specifically for France. (I'd guess there was some additional switch or lighting - or possibly something omitted - on models destined for France, requiring a slightly different dash.)

    [/ QUOTE ]Since a different part number is given ONLY for that LHS France-only dash, I'm guessing that it was a difference in finish; perhaps the French market demanded a "matte" finish before US Federal standards required same?

    [ QUOTE ]
    The Spa White painted dash of TR4 was pretty unique to that model and certainly makes it stand out. But, retro-fitting wood dashes has been so common that - if it's what you prefer, no judge in any car show would ever be able to fault you for it.

    [/ QUOTE ]Right, so long as the dash is properly crafted and installed; some clubs have some very knowledgeable and strict judges! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
    -- Andrew (Andy) Mace, VTR's Triumph 10/Herald/Sports 6 vehicle consultant and keeper of the North American Triumph Sports 6 and Herald Database

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    Jedi Trainee pa297pass's Avatar
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    Re: TR4 Wooden Dash

    Thanks guys ... what awesome posts! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Just a few added notes. My VIN is CT16610 so it is only a little bit earlier than yours Alan ... It also is titled as a 1964, and I have some paperwork from an engine rebuild in 1974 that was done in CA (I assume that's where your car is from). You mentioned that the "homemade" dashes were sometimes made of hardwood, but mine is definately veneered plywood, and the plywood has the multiple layers like my TR6 dash does.

    I will look at the switch plinth and see if it looks cut, but I am also going to take some pictures and see what you guys can see in them. I know I could take the dash apart, which I will eventually do anyway, but I just wanted to know what parts I should start searching for to return it to its original configuration.

    BTW, were there two "whites" in 1962? My car is currently red but the inside of the trunk is still its original off white. Would you think this is "Spa White", or could it be the "Valasquez Cream" listed in the Moss catalog?

    Thanks again for the awesome help ... I'll post some pics later today.

    Matt

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    Luke Skywalker Alan_Myers's Avatar
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    Re: TR4 Wooden Dash

    Hi Matt,

    Both Valasquez Cream and Spa White were used on TR4 in '61. But Valasquez was dropped very early on, probably before l962, and is really quite yellowish and pretty far off-white. In fact, it borders on a pale yellow. Spa White continued until 1963 and is a somewhat purer white, but still noticibly off-white. New White replaced Spa in 1963 and is more of a bright white. It was also used on TR4A (code #19). Lucky for them, TRs built from 1964 on have a color code number stamped right on the commission plate! (No such luck for us.)

    January through March of 1963 saw a number of color changes on TR4. This was in the CT19xxx-CT21xxx range, so doesn't effect either of our cars. It was during this time that Spa White was replaced by New White, Powder Blue was replaced by slightly darker Wedgewood Blue, and British Racing Green was replaced by a slightly lighter Triumph Racing Green. (There are lots of heated disputes about the correct mix for both these greens, BTW.) Only Signal Red and Black were used consistently throughout the TR4 production run.

    TR4A picked up and used the same colors as TR4, but added Royal Blue in 1966 and Valencia Blue - a color that's usually more associated with TR250/5 - during the last few months of TR4A production.

    Do you know about the Build Certificates at British Motor Industry Heritage Trust? You can order one for your car, by the commission number, at http://www.heritage-motor-centre.co....ve_index.html. It will nearly always show the original exterior paint color, interior trim and a variety of other things, taken from the factory records that are on file at BMIHT. The certificate I got for my car confirms it was Spa White with Midnight Blue leather interior (an "unofficial" color combination!) and that the engine is original, it was fitted with a heater, etc. It also tells me, yes, my car entered the U.S. through the Port of San Francisco, although I actually bought it in Colorado, 3rd- or 4th-hand back in the mid-1970s (and subsequently happened to return it here to the SF Bay Area in 1996.)

    I have a jpeg of Triumph color chips from 1963. I'd be happy to email it to you, if you wish (it's 1.5 MB). However, I have to warn that it's a scan of a very old page that was somewhat faded and stained. I'm not sure the colors are very true anymore and I've seen better color chip representations on the Internet (just Google for them). Unfortunately, the different paint manufacturers also have tended to rename colors quite a bit (For example, this particular Martin Senouir chart doesn't show "New White" but lists #19 code next to what they call "Pure White").

    Hi Andy,

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I question this statement. The "wood veneer" dash kit listed as an option in earlier TR4 spare parts catalogs. I would say it's far less common, but am pretty certain it was available earlier....

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I have (only) a First Edition TR4 Spare Parts Catalogue, in which no "veneered facia" option is listed.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Do you find a year listed anywhere in that TR4 Spare Parts Cat? The TR4 Cat I have is old, but is definitely a reprint, I don't see a year anywhere. It's "Part No. 510978" and inside on the title page has "Second Edition, 1st Printing". A real giveaway that it's a reprint is that even though there is a "Stanpart" logo on the front, there is also a British Leyland "Puckered Sphincter" on the back (where else would it be, eh?).

    Another "clincher" (uh, sorry about that one, too) is that there are change points noted up in the CT35xxx range, indicating the catalog must be from at least, what, '64/65? OTOH, a TR4A Cat I have is definitely a dealer original and has a handful of the factory revisions added in the front.

    The "Veneer Facia" I mentioned is *not* listed where I originally thought it would be... it's not in the last few pages of the TR4 Cat along with all the other Accessories &amp; Special Order items. (However, the Wooden Steering Wheel is listed there.)

    Instead, the Veneered Facia Panel Assembly is listed along with all the other dash parts next to Plate AP, although it's not actually illustrated on that plate (or anywhere else). Next to the Assembly listing and breakdown of individual parts its noted as "Special Order only".

    Oddly, I just noticed the Ash Tray Assembly - Front is also noted as "Special Order only". Hmmmmm, I've never seen one *not* fitted, always thought it was standard item... And also never seen a "Rear" ashtray in a TR4!

    Hey, I don't take the catalogs totally on faith. They have their share of errors and ommissions, too. It's common for an old illustration plate to continue to be used if it's "close enough", although parts might have changed a little in some way. (Case in point: The 4-gauge panel shown in Plate AP is clearly the early polished type with the cross-hatch pattern, that was only used through CT4398. Both it and the later, more common type are listed with their respective part numbers, though.)

    Something contradictory in this particular TR4 catalog, the Touch-In Paint you mentioned shows only Spa White (Part #516516 Pencil, 516515 Spray), but completely omits the New White used from CT21xxx on!?

    And, in the Interior Trim section of the catalog, only Black, Red and Blue are listed, although I know for a fact there were at least two reds and two blues (In TR4 there were: bright Red, dark red which might be "Matador", Midnight Blue and Shadow Blue).

    Well, we've hijacked this thread just about as far as we can take it, haven't we?! I think the point is, though, that no matter how hard we try to determine "originality", there will still be some grey areas and room for heated discussions amongst ourselves and disputes with concours judges! Otherwise, wouldn't it all be dull and boring? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    I forgot to mention earlier, my '62 TR4 has never had a wood dash fitted, even though it wasn't sold/registered until '64, by which time Bill Piggott says it's fairly certain the dash kits were available.

    Finally, depending upon the condition of your wood dash, Matt, if it's original it might be possible to refinish it or even re-veneer just the front. The main concern would be if it's starting to de-laminate. You might want to get a copy of Bill Piggott's "Original Triumph TR4/4A/250/5/6" to better see what an original dash looked like, in terms of grain and color. I take the photos in there with a grain of salt because the original stain will definitely bleach out a bit lighter over the years, and the varnish tended to yellow a bit. However, this is probably the best way to get some idea of color and appearance. As previously noted, a TR4 dash would have a glossy finish.

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    Alan Myers
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    Yoda TR4nut's Avatar
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    Re: TR4 Wooden Dash

    [ QUOTE ]
    Oddly, I just noticed the Ash Tray Assembly - Front is also noted as "Special Order only". Hmmmmm, I've never seen one *not* fitted, always thought it was standard item... And also never seen a "Rear" ashtray in a TR4!



    [/ QUOTE ]
    I think the main difference here is not the tray but the holding bracket - the one for a wood dash will be shortened to accomodate the dash thickness. Unless you have both versions in hand, it wouldn't be an easy thing to spot. My bet is that it is really the only 'special order' piece.
    Randy
    64 TR4
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    Moderator Andrew Mace's Avatar
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    Re: TR4 Wooden Dash

    [ QUOTE ]
    Hi Andy,

    [ QUOTE ]
    ...I have (only) a First Edition TR4 Spare Parts Catalogue, in which no "veneered facia" option is listed.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Do you find a year listed anywhere in that TR4 Spare Parts Cat? The TR4 Cat I have is old, but is definitely a reprint, I don't see a year anywhere. It's "Part No. 510978" and inside on the title page has "Second Edition, 1st Printing".

    [/ QUOTE ]There's no date on my First Edition TR4 SPC (common back then NOT to date SPC's for some reason). It's an original, p/n 510978/USA, obviously intended for US dealers and owners, and it's the kind in the grey cover three-ring binder.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Another "clincher" (uh, sorry about that one, too) is that there are change points noted up in the CT35xxx range, indicating the catalog must be from at least, what, '64/65? OTOH, a TR4A Cat I have is definitely a dealer original and has a handful of the factory revisions added in the front.

    The "Veneer Facia" I mentioned is *not* listed where I originally thought it would be... it's not in the last few pages of the TR4 Cat along with all the other Accessories &amp; Special Order items. (However, the Wooden Steering Wheel is listed there.)

    Instead, the Veneered Facia Panel Assembly is listed along with all the other dash parts next to Plate AP, although it's not actually illustrated on that plate (or anywhere else). Next to the Assembly listing and breakdown of individual parts its noted as "Special Order only".

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Well, there must have been a substantial revision somewhere between yours and mine. My TR4A SPC is Second Edition, p/n 514837, softbound with a grey cover (back cover is missing) but still appears to be a factory publication. Oh, and it has a BLMC inventory sticker on the inside front cover. Anyway, the dash bits are on plate AW in mine, and that drawing (#B1149 in the lower right of the drawing) shows a "wood grained" dash panel. It does also show the "Metal Facia Panel Assembly"; I'm assuming that this is the structural "backing" for the wood facia and was not intended ever to have been the actual "exposed" dash on a TR4A, particularly since there's no mention of a metal cubby box lid, only the wood one.
    [ QUOTE ]

    Hey, I don't take the catalogs totally on faith. They have their share of errors and ommissions, too. It's common for an old illustration plate to continue to be used if it's "close enough", although parts might have changed a little in some way.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    That's even more obvious in later SPCs covering TR2 / 3 / 3A models, where no attempt was made to update the drawings of major body panels such as the front apron!
    [ QUOTE ]
    And, in the Interior Trim section of the catalog, only Black, Red and Blue are listed, although I know for a fact there were at least two reds and two blues (In TR4 there were: bright Red, dark red which might be "Matador", Midnight Blue and Shadow Blue).

    [/ QUOTE ] Correct: "bright red" was earlier and Matador later; Midnight Blue was earlier and Shadow much later (probably at or somewhat near the end of TR4A production only).
    -- Andrew (Andy) Mace, VTR's Triumph 10/Herald/Sports 6 vehicle consultant and keeper of the North American Triumph Sports 6 and Herald Database

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    Luke Skywalker Alan_Myers's Avatar
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    Re: TR4 Wooden Dash

    Hi again Andy,

    Not trying to belabor this, but I think I was unclear in my earlier response.

    What I was wondering was if your early TR4 catalog might list the Veneer (Wood) Facia adjacent to Plate AP (Just a parts item listing, not actually illustrated in any way on that plate)? I had originally looked for it in the Special Order &amp; Accessories pages near the back of the book, and thought maybe that's where you looked, too. I didn't find it in Special Orders &amp; Accessories. Instead, it is listedwith all the other TR4 dash parts, and has a notation that it's a special order item, in my reprint/second edition TR4 catalog along.

    If the Veneer (Wood) Facia were also listed this way in your very early TR4 catalog, that would refute Bill Piggott's statement in "Original TR4..." where he says the wood dash kits weren't offered until 1964. On the other hand, if it really isn't shown anywhere in your catalog, that might tend to support Piggott's claim, instead. Either way would be helpful to Matt trying to determine if his car's wood dash is original to the car or not.

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    ...I have (only) a First Edition TR4 Spare Parts Catalogue, in which no "veneered facia" option is listed.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [ QUOTE ]
    ..."Veneer Facia" I mentioned is *not* listed where I originally thought it would be... it's not in the last few pages of the TR4 Cat along with all the other Accessories &amp; Special Order items....

    Instead, the Veneered Facia Panel Assembly {it is listed as a special order item}... along with all the other dash parts next to Plate AP {in my TR4 catalog}...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [ QUOTE ]
    Well, there must have been a substantial revision somewhere between yours and mine. My TR4A SPC is Second Edition, p/n 514837... the dash bits are on plate AW in mine, and that drawing (#B1149 in the lower right of the drawing) shows a "wood grained" dash panel. It does also show the "Metal Facia Panel Assembly"; I'm assuming that this is the structural "backing" for the wood facia and was not intended ever to have been the actual "exposed" dash on a TR4A, particularly since there's no mention of a metal cubby box lid, only the wood one.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Actually, my TR4A catalog agrees completely with yours: In it, too, Plate AW is the one that shows all the dash bits, including the wood facia. It's clear from parts listed, all TR4A were fitted with wood dashes. My TR4A catalog has same p/n as yours, too, and I finally found some 1965 dates on Ammendments that are in it. But that's it, no other dates in the catalog itself and unfortunately the frontpiece which would have given the edition number is missing from this particular one. It is also the grey, 3-ring binder type.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif[/img]
    Alan Myers
    San Jose, CA
    '62 TR4 CT17602L

    &quot;Get in. Sit down. Shut up. Hang on.&quot;

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