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Thread: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

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    Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    The engine I am working on has had previous crankshaft work done as the main bearing shells are identified as being .010" under sized. The installed thrust washers have no markings on them. I have float of about .008". I can't tell if the thrust washer bearing area on the crank has been altered, so my question is, how thick are standard thrust washers? These washers measure between .090" and .094".
    Thanks,
    Steve Baker
    I own 1958 TR3A TS 26005L and have the privilege of working on 1960 TR3A TS 65587L.

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    Luke Skywalker LarryK's Avatar
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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    What car? There is a tolerance in the tables, I'll look it up.
    Larry K
    58 Jag 3.4 MK 1 auto under restoration, 57 Jag 3.4 MK1 manual ,
    03 Cooper S, 2011 Cooper S Countryman, 2011 Land Rover LR4 HSE LUX, 1964 Valiant V200
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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    Sorry, TR3. I know the tolerance is .004" to .006". Problem is I am at .008" so I have to do something about it. As stated above, I can't tell if the crank had the thrust washer area machined and oversized thrust washers installed or not.
    I own 1958 TR3A TS 26005L and have the privilege of working on 1960 TR3A TS 65587L.

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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    There are sized thrust washers. The shops usually don't mess with the side of the journals. +.001 on each side. Can plane outer side to make exact. Moss? Somebody has had to do a TR3 before, I haven't had to do them on a Triumph. Coming off a Holiday answers may be slow.
    Larry K
    58 Jag 3.4 MK 1 auto under restoration, 57 Jag 3.4 MK1 manual ,
    03 Cooper S, 2011 Cooper S Countryman, 2011 Land Rover LR4 HSE LUX, 1964 Valiant V200
    Also had , 68 Cortina 1600E, 64 Spit 4 & 80 1500, 73 GT6 3, 71 XJ6, 79 XJ6, 86 XJS V-12, 53 XK120 OTS.

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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    MOSS Europe has the stock thrush washers listed as 0.0925. They have +0.005 available, one set might get you to the tolerance you are looking for, or possible just a fresh stock set will do it.
    Randy
    70 TR6 - running
    59 TR3A - slumbering
    64 TR4 - got another one!

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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    You have to take the journal cap off to install the thrust washer. Remove it and check to see ifnthrust washer is installed with oil groove towards the rod journal. Then you can see what has been touched.
    Larry K
    58 Jag 3.4 MK 1 auto under restoration, 57 Jag 3.4 MK1 manual ,
    03 Cooper S, 2011 Cooper S Countryman, 2011 Land Rover LR4 HSE LUX, 1964 Valiant V200
    Also had , 68 Cortina 1600E, 64 Spit 4 & 80 1500, 73 GT6 3, 71 XJ6, 79 XJ6, 86 XJS V-12, 53 XK120 OTS.

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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    The Roadster Factory has standard and .005.
    Larry K
    58 Jag 3.4 MK 1 auto under restoration, 57 Jag 3.4 MK1 manual ,
    03 Cooper S, 2011 Cooper S Countryman, 2011 Land Rover LR4 HSE LUX, 1964 Valiant V200
    Also had , 68 Cortina 1600E, 64 Spit 4 & 80 1500, 73 GT6 3, 71 XJ6, 79 XJ6, 86 XJS V-12, 53 XK120 OTS.

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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    Just one point--I'm looking at the spec in my TR4 shop manual, and it gives 0.004-0.006 "desirable." I'm not sure what that means, but it seems to say it's not a hard spec. Indeed, it gives a range of 0.0048-0.0117 in manufacturing, with a wear limit of 0.015. I find it amusing that they would spec such a wide range, but specify it to four decimal places. Strange.
    Steve Maas
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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    I find that all the British cars I have rebuilt or worked on have pretty precise measures. More precise than the domestic American cars of that era. Basically, because all the manufacturers in England built race cars after coming down from war when they built fighter planes, bombers, tanks and artillary. My machine shop that does my precision welding was leery of tackling a slider on a gear because "those Brits knew how to harden and measure steel".
    Larry K
    58 Jag 3.4 MK 1 auto under restoration, 57 Jag 3.4 MK1 manual ,
    03 Cooper S, 2011 Cooper S Countryman, 2011 Land Rover LR4 HSE LUX, 1964 Valiant V200
    Also had , 68 Cortina 1600E, 64 Spit 4 & 80 1500, 73 GT6 3, 71 XJ6, 79 XJ6, 86 XJS V-12, 53 XK120 OTS.

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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    Your .008" is well within the new tolerance, and unlike the TR6 motor, these motors almost never have trouble with thrust washers.

    Rather than go through the hassle of sanding down an insert, I would just put it back together at .008" unless you're going racing or something.
    Randall
    56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
    71 Stag LE1473L waiting engine rebuild
    71-72-73 Stag LE2013LBW waiting OD gearbox rebuild

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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    No racing here. So at what point would you be concerned with crank end float? I want to make a note in my manual.
    I own 1958 TR3A TS 26005L and have the privilege of working on 1960 TR3A TS 65587L.

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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    I ordered the thickest washers and then used a glass plate, 220 wet or dry, and engine oil to sand them to the limit. If it has worried you for the last 11 days...why not do it right? It only took me 10 minutes to get the float spot on.
    John

    1955 TR2

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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    Quote Originally Posted by mastaphixa View Post
    No racing here. So at what point would you be concerned with crank end float? I want to make a note in my manual.
    What I do is buy both standard and .005" sets, then use the combination that comes closest (but not under) the "desirable" .004 to .006" range.

    If using +.005" on both sides did not get down to the .0117" spec, I would consider doing something extra (like having the crank cheek welded up and ground down). But it hasn't happened yet.
    Randall
    56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
    71 Stag LE1473L waiting engine rebuild
    71-72-73 Stag LE2013LBW waiting OD gearbox rebuild

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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    Randall,
    Thanks. Where is the .0117" coming from? If it is experience, I certainly respect that, but am I overlooking something in the manual?
    I own 1958 TR3A TS 26005L and have the privilege of working on 1960 TR3A TS 65587L.

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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    Still not sold...here's another sales pitch.

    The engine is inclined in the chassis, so gravity will tend to move the crank rearward. The crank, therefore, spends most of it's time riding gently on the front thrust bearing. Now you go to engage the clutch. First the free space must be taken up between the clutch forks and throw-out bearing. Then the throw out bearing picks up the crankshaft and must drive it forward until "clunk"...all the thrust play is removed. Now the clutch can be disengaged.


    If the thrust clearance is .006". you will never hear the "clunk" engaging the clutch, and the crank will never make an audible knocking from end play. If you approach 1/8" thrust play, then you are significantly affecting the clutch throw available...and you will notice the "clunk" regularly when the clutch is engaged. 1/8" at the clutch is more than all the clutch fork free play available in a well-clearance engine/clutch. Later you my be wondering why the clutch drags, even though all the settings are spot on.

    So far we assume everything else is spot on. If you have a cocked rod or piston, the endplay knocking could be constant at idle and low speeds.

    If I have to worry about an excessive clearance for more than 10 minutes during an engine build, then that is a sign I need to make it right! If you have been concerned for more than 10 days and you leave the clearance large, then you will always wonder...!?! It's a cheap, readily available bearing. Why give it another minute's thought?
    John

    1955 TR2

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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    Quote Originally Posted by mastaphixa View Post
    Randall,
    Thanks. Where is the .0117" coming from? If it is experience, I certainly respect that, but am I overlooking something in the manual?
    ?? It's in both the TR3 and TR4 factory workshop manual.


    Randall
    56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
    71 Stag LE1473L waiting engine rebuild
    71-72-73 Stag LE2013LBW waiting OD gearbox rebuild

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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    Randall and John, thanks. I was focused on the .004 - .006 in the remarks column. the .0117" makes sense now. I do have a new set of standard washers that just showed up from BPNW so I will play with those and see if I can tighten it up to the preferred spec. They included a Yorks Peppermint Patty with my order! Do they always do that?
    Steve Baker
    I own 1958 TR3A TS 26005L and have the privilege of working on 1960 TR3A TS 65587L.

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    Re: Standard Engine Trust Washer Thickness

    Quote Originally Posted by mastaphixa View Post
    They included a Yorks Peppermint Patty with my order! Do they always do that?
    Steve Baker
    Generally BPNW do throw a handful of candy into every order as a thank you. However, they do sometimes forget.
    Doug L.
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