• The Roadster Factory Recovery Fund - Friends, as you may have heard, The Roadster Factory, a respected British Car Parts business in PA, suffered a total loss in a fire on Christmas Day. Read about it, discuss or ask questions >> HERE. The Triumph Register of America is sponsoring a fund raiser to help TRF get back on their feet. If you can help, vist >> their GoFundMe page.
  • Hey there Guest!
    If you enjoy BCF and find our forum a useful resource, if you appreciate not having ads pop up all over the place and you want to ensure we can stay online - Please consider supporting with an "optional" low-cost annual subscription.
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this UGLY banner)
Tips
Tips

Carnauba wax Vs. new ceramic paint sealants

BG 62AH

Senior Member
Country flag
Offline
I’ve been reading a lot about these new paint sealants, and how they compare to “old school” car wax products. Seems ther are pros and cons to both. I’ve always used the traditional products.

My cars paint is approx. 2 year old 2 stage base/clear coat.

Has anyone had any experience with the new products?

Opinions appreciated.

Wishing everyone in the BCF community a happy holiday season!
 

ozhealey

Member
Country flag
Offline
Bill,

Not sure about the new products, however I have only ever used the pure carnauba wax on my BJ7 since it was re-painted 22 years ago. The paint still looks like it was applied yesterday and always draws positive comments. People cant believe after more than 20 years the paint still looks new.

I'm sure the new products are fabulous, but I'm sticking with what has worked for 2 decades on my Healey.

Cheers
Tony
 

Healey Nut

Luke Skywalker
Country flag
Offline
I see posts from guys on the Aston Martin forum who get “paint correction” done and then the ceramic coatings after that and they spend huge $$$$$ to do it ...
Me I will stick with products I have been using for years .
T-cut for swirl and scratch removal and high quality waxes and quick detailer for the in between times .
 

Keoke

Great Pumpkin
Country flag
Offline
I guess iff the paint has been polished the new sealant might work, however: I have not used anything but conventional polish then wax. ?
 

Healey Nut

Luke Skywalker
Country flag
Offline
I guess iff the paint has been polished the new sealant might work, however: I have not used anything but conventional polish then wax. ?

I think ????? the paint correction process removes all the old wax residue and scratches , swirl marks etc then the ceramic coating is applied and seals the surface and because its ceramic its very durable ??
My feeling is part of owning classic cars is the labour of love we put in waxing and polishing our cars . Its kind of theraputic and the sense of accomplishment once its done clean and shiny is very rewarding .
 

BigGreen

Jedi Warrior
Silver
Country flag
Offline
A "ceramic" coating needs a very clean surface, so (machine)polishing is needed
Most coatings are based on Silicon Dioxide (we dutch call it Silicium) also being the main ingredient in sand

For a daily driver a coating needs less maintenance
For the Healey a wax, applied by hand, gives the more rewarding TLC moments

See this post in the Restoration section (click on text)
 
Last edited:

Bob_Spidell

Yoda
Gold
Country flag
Online
A "ceramic" coating needs a very clean surface, so (machine)polishing is needed
Most coatings are based on Silicium also being the main ingredient in sand

For a second there, I thought we'd discovered a new element. A quick search proved otherwise: for us English manglers, Silicium is Dutch for silicon :wink-new:

For my daily driver (Mustang), I've used Ultra Finish for years with good results; shines well and lasts longer than wax (my BJ8's paint is beat all to **** so I usually just wash it). Surprisingly, it's applied not with a microfiber but my original can came with something that looked and felt like a shop rag. You just rub it on (in) until it's glossy; very easy to apply. NFI:

https://www.ultrafinishproducts.com/UltraFinishPolish.html
 

BigGreen

Jedi Warrior
Silver
Country flag
Offline
In Dutch the word silicon(en) relates to breast implants ;-)
 

vette

Darth Vader
Country flag
Offline
I'll be honest, I have no experience with new products such as ceramic but I will give my unhumbled opinion anyway. From a lifetime of doing autobody and paintwork, as a hobbiest but extensive, there are only 3 products. A polish, A Glaze and A wax. Such things as a ceramic sealant might only add to durability because ceramics are traditionally hard. But that hardness in the elements still won't last, it will also get dull. Just like urethanes will get dull if left alone. Then what? Well, you start with a polish again. You might as well just polish, glaze and wax your urethane, or enamel, or lacquer.
Polish does just that, it polishes. A multitude of agressiveness' are available.
Glaze, has the effect of a wee bit of filling action. Hence, it fills pores and hides swirl marks. Which helps to luster.
Wax, it's just a coating. I does seal and protect. But has minimal durability. In creating an ultra smooth
surface it allows maximum reflection of light, hence shine. A wax without additives has almost no durability. Pure Carnuba which gives great reflective ability has no durability whatsoever.

Quick Detailer, is a great solution to keep your car looking nice between a once a year good waxing because waxes don't last long anyway.

Urethanes were developed to give some durability and lasting shine to auto bodies because with the environmental problems of lacquer and the poor finish, durability of enamels the industry needed something. Ceramics may be the next step in durability but with the ability and flexibility of urethanes I don't think ceramics will be cost competitive. That's probably why you are seeing it more on very expensive cars. I personally don't think its necessary. Just marketing. The real expense car can tout 'boy I've got a ceramic coating'. Yea, who needs it.
 

Bob_Spidell

Yoda
Gold
Country flag
Online
Thanks for the info, vette; answers questions I've had for years. I used TR3(?) for a few years, which IIRC is a glaze. It worked reasonably well. The UltraFinish seems to be like a combination polish and glaze.
 

PC

Obi Wan
Country flag
Offline
Unfortunately, terminology is very inconsistent in the industry. What one company calls wax, another will call a glaze. What one company calls a glaze yet another will call a polish. And many products combine multiple functions, just making it all even more confusing.

TR3 Resin Glaze contains cleaning solvents and abrasives as well as wax (the same wax used on fruit). Ultrafinish claims to "clean, shine and protect," but they make a big deal of the saying it contains no wax.

I like the term "protectant" as being less ambiguous when referring to products that leave behind something that reduces or prevents environmental damage.

Most all protectants can further be described as either waxes, sealants or coatings.

Most people can relate to waxes because everybody had touched some kind of wax and can imagine rubbing a candle on a surface to cover it. Traditional waxes can be either plant or mineral based. But waxes can also be created synthetically.

Synthetic Sealants are applied to the finish as a solution or per-cursor compounds and the reaction that forms the final protective material take place on the surface.

Coatings are similar to sealants in that they're created synthetically and set up on the finish. But they create a much thicker layer and are far tougher. They're also much more fiddly to apply and require a pristine surface as a base. Specifics are hard to come by and probably unreliable, but it appears that coatings leave a layer in the range of hundred thousandths or even ten thousandths. (Paint thickness is in the range of thousandths. Waxes and sealants go on molecules thick.)

As a very rough rule of thumb, waxes can last a few weeks, sealants a few months and coatings a couple years.

The finish on a garage queen or weekend toy may not really need any of them to look good for a long time. The more a finish is exposed to environmental threats the more benefit it can get from a protectant.

Mike Phillips at AutoGeek likes to say "find something you like and use it often."
 

Bob_Spidell

Yoda
Gold
Country flag
Online
Timely discussion for me; I have to decide what to use on my new BJ9:

BMustang.jpg
 

LarryK

Yoda
Gold
Country flag
Offline
I think the ceramic might make any repaint or touchup a pain. Like silicone spray, anywhere near paint, near impossible to remove and more so to repaint. I use Carnuba, comes off when needed, goes back on easy.
 

Bob_Spidell

Yoda
Gold
Country flag
Online
LOVE the cute Mustang-logo courtesy light projected from under the open door. It had to be Bullit Green, didn't it?

Yup. That's why I bought the first one (that, and the 'spoiler and bling delete'). I 'shopped' a little, and got a dealer really trying to sell me a GT350; that is an impressive engine, but I've heard they drink oil, can only have so many of those (and it has a rice-rocket spoiler).

Might be a good time to buy a car; this is the most seamless/painless transaction I've ever done. Handshake deal, I didn't have my checkbook and they said 'no problem' and sent it to detailing. No credit check--which can be a hassle because I've put a lock on all the credit agencies--and I forgot to bring the pink slip; they said 'no problem, bring it in when you get a chance,' plus oil 'changes for life.'
 
Country flag
Offline
LOVE the cute Mustang-logo courtesy light projected from under the open door. It had to be Bullit Green, didn't it?
Perhaps then too, you might like the puddle-lights of my wife's new daily-driver, given a presumed partiality to the letter M yourself?

attachment.php


Oh, and under the directive of its 1st owner, she's had the power output increased from the stock specification of 567 bhp @ 6000 rpm and 553 Lbs-ft tq @ 2200 rpm to a Dinan tuned 716hp/702tq. My neighbor's Z06 only has 650 bhp (of course, it's about 100,000 Lbs lighter ;) ).
We've had it about ten (10) days now; 2016 CPO X5M w/16k mi. I might even volunteer to do the grocery shopping once in a while...

Stock photo:

new-2018-bmw-x5_m-sportsactivityvehicle-8507-17776603-1-400.jpg


[/side-track]

Attempting to get somewhat back on topic, my wife's new__to us__daily-driver has all leading surfaces, and selected trailing ones, covered with 3M EXPEL Paint Protective Film (reputedly 8 mils thick). Besides looking natural, at least on a Mineral White Metallic (think mild pearlescent), there are ZERO visible paint chips. I do not know if the ceramic sealants have that feature, but waxes surely do not.
 

twas_brillig

Jedi Knight
Country flag
Offline
We had the fibreglas body on our Manx clone cleaned up/smoothed out/painted about three years ago and it turned out beautifully. I would like to drive it on gravel occasionally, so this fall we had it covered with the 3M product family of protective films. We'd originally put film down over the body flare that your butt slides over to get in and out (and the four point seat belts bang up against) shortly after the paint/body job, and it was scarred but had successfully protected the paint for the last few years. Our son-in-law had his motorcycle ceramic coated and I chatted with the applicator, but my concern wasn't so much shine etc. as rock-chips, and it seemed that film was the way to go. The applicator used three different types on the job (and I don't remember which/where, other than a higher temperature resistance in the area around the engine).
I'm going to take the Healey down to the ceramic chap in the Spring and ask about costs, but will probably just continue with an annual wax, and maybe add film over the nose area to protect against chips. Doug
 

Bob_Spidell

Yoda
Gold
Country flag
Online
re: " Attempting to get somewhat back on topic, my wife's new__to us__daily-driver has all leading surfaces, and selected trailing ones, covered with 3M EXPEL Paint Protective Film (reputedly 8 mils thick). Besides looking natural, at least on a Mineral White Metallic (think mild pearlescent), there are ZERO visible paint chips. I do not know if the ceramic sealants have that feature, but waxes surely do not."

Interesting. Must have to be applied like a wrap (by somebody who knows what they're doing):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8i41eEsocM
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
af3683 General TR What car wax do you use? Triumph 6
Lynn Kirkpatrick Car wax/polish Restoration & Tools 9
G Wash...Wax and getting ready ! ! Triumph 2
Brosky Wax stripping and removal Restoration & Tools 11
RickB Removing paste wax from fiberglass? Spridgets 5
I Wax, rubbing compound suggestions Spridgets 10
startech47 best wax system? Restoration & Tools 9
AUSMHLY Got Wax? Austin Healey 10
D Low shine or matte wax Restoration & Tools 4
Mark_Gibson Wax Preferences Triumph 16
A Swissol wax Restoration & Tools 5
Frazier New wax technology Restoration & Tools 8
U Paint and Wax? Restoration & Tools 0
U Paint and Wax? Triumph 1
A Wax report: Mothers 'reflections' Restoration & Tools 5
T Difference between a WAX and a Paint Sealant? Restoration & Tools 0
T How 2 tell good wax/paint sealant from a bad one Restoration & Tools 26
A Wax Latest Restoration & Tools 21
Basil What wax or polish to use? Restoration & Tools 7
Got_All_4 For Sale Brake caliper pistons Ceramic Coated and more Triumph Classifieds 0
R Ceramic Finish Austin Healey 3
R ceramic or semi-metallic brake pad? Spridgets 3
3798j General TR Ceramic Coated Exhaust Manifold Triumph 8
J Bling! New ceramic coating on exhaust manifold Spridgets 8
B Ceramic Coating Austin Healey 9
1965_MGB Ceramic Coating Exhaust Parts Restoration & Tools 18
Brosky Block painted with Ceramic and curing Triumph 22
danstr6 Ceramic Coating for Header Triumph 14
D Ceramic Coating Triumph 5
T ceramic lifters Triumph 1
Lin Jet Hot ceramic exhaust coating Austin Healey 13
beez ceramic coating on headers Triumph 14
Lin Header Ceramic Coating Austin Healey 2
S Lizard Skin Ceramic Insulation MG 0

Similar threads

Top