Storing a newly rebuilt engine

Csarneson

Jedi Hopeful

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• Dec 4, 2018

• #1

I’m working my way through a 57 BN4 and have nearly finished rebuilding the engine. This is my first time for engine work. The rest of the car is several years away from being done. What’s the best way to store the engine?

1) pump oil up to the rockers (I built a pre-oiler), prime the oil pump, and then bag it up for a couple years?

or

2) build an engine test stand to fire it up and do a brief break in?

thanks!

Chris

 

roscoe

Jedi Knight

Silver

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• Dec 5, 2018

• #2

You might want to do the test cell run to know you have an engine that has no major issues. That will also ensure you have oil everywhere it needs to be. When you are done with the runs of your choice, drain the oil. There are preservative oils that can be applied with a short run or a pre- oiler but you would probably need to special order some, drain that too if you use it. Perhaps as valuable would be to use dehydrator plugs in place of the spark plugs. They are commonly used with piston aircraft engines in storage and have a dessicant in them to keep moisture from the cylinders. The alternative would be to make a good crate and put a few bags of dessicant in with the engine. A couple of years of dry storage should not be a problem, moisture being your only enemy. I'm sure others will have more suggestions.

 

Bob_Spidell

Yoda

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• Dec 5, 2018

• #3

I've not done this, but Jon's advice sounds good to me. My concern would be the coolant passages; they are bare iron--unless you had them coated with something--and, exposed to the air would be inclined to rust (assume you had the block boiled out when rebuilt?). I'd be inclined to coat the insides with a rust inhibitor--I've used LPS3 on external parts with good results--and seal up the openings (radiator and water pump). When you install the engine and have it ready to run (again), I'd do a mild flush on the cooling system to remove the inhibitor, then fill with the usual (60/40 distilled water/antifreeze for me).

https://pilotshq.com/lps-premier-ru...MI_5STpoSJ3wIV-B-tBh0hGQZcEAYYASABEgIxcvD_BwE

 

roscoe

Jedi Knight

Silver

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• Dec 5, 2018

• #4

When I rebuilt my engine, Norman Nock at British Car Specialists suggested putting Irontite ceramic engine seal through the cooling system. Normally I am VERY sceptical of additives like this but I had great respect for Mr. Nock and gave it a go. Although a sample size of one is at best anecdotal I must say I have had zero coolant system issues. I can still see the coating it laid down when I look in the radiator tank which scared me at first but I have never had ttemperature problems, even in the hot ( and getting hotter) Sacramento Valley on 100 degree days I never see more than 195 degrees. Obviously this is my two cents worth and it is backed up by exactly two cents. Just some food for thought if you are concerned about Bob's reasoning ( which I certainly agree with). I think the key to using the Irontite product is having a fresh rebuild with a hot tanked or otherwise cleaned coolant jacket, boiled out or new radiator and strictly following the directions on the container.

 

Bob_Spidell

Yoda

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• Dec 5, 2018

• #5

Irontite sounds good (hadn't heard of it). Alternatively, you could just remove the thermostat, plug the water pump inlet, fill with a strong anti-freeze/rust inhibitor solution, then replace the thermostat. The upside is the engine would be ready to go, coolant-wise--if you could avoid too much leaking--after installation. I would probably replace the coolant at the first opportunity after that.

 

B

British_Recovery

Jedi Warrior

Bronze

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• Dec 5, 2018

• #6

 

Last edited: Dec 5, 2018

B

British_Recovery

Jedi Warrior

Bronze

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• Dec 5, 2018

• #7

If you have the space, set up something like the photo, to run the engine in, and also test the gearbox. Nice to hear it as you get the rest of it done - the sound might be motivation to get it done.

 

Randy Forbes

Yoda

Offline

• Dec 6, 2018

• #8

Classic, classic, classic mistake. Engine should be one of the last things to build for a total restoration.

Too late in your case, buy maybe someone else will read it...

 

roscoe

Jedi Knight

Silver

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• Dec 6, 2018

• #9

What Randy says is spot on but I would emphasize that by italicizing the word build. There is much to be said for knowing what you are dealing with early on. Waiting two years to find you have a non repairable crank or head or case is not how I would want it. Plus that would allow you to spread any costs out over time for pricey parts and machine work. Not to mention all the extra goodies you might be able to justify by having more time to think about those roller rockers, or increased capacity oil pump or, praise be, the alloy head we'd all like to have. Also, not to mention being able to take advantage of 2 years of ebay and vendor sales. Having said all this, it would be "difficult" for me to not put just a few things together with all those clean and shiny parts bekoning me from the work bench.

 

Bob_Spidell

Yoda

Offline

• Dec 6, 2018

• #10

OK, we're going a little OT here, and what Randy says makes plenty sense, but why can't you build, then properly 'pickle' an engine to preserve it for a couple years? A good assembly lube on the rotating and friction parts (cranks, bearings, cams, lifters, etc.) plus a thick oil or rust preventative and desiccant plugs for the cylinders should do a good job of preserving machined surfaces. The oil and coolant galleys would need to be preserved, somehow, but what can go wrong (esp. if the engine was stored in a temperature- and humidity-controlled room)?

And Jon has a good argument, too. Say you bought a basket case that had a complete drivetrain; wouldn't you want to see if the engine was seriously damaged before committing to all the body work?

 

G

grimes6

Senior Member

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• Dec 6, 2018

• #11

A couple of years ago I saw an engine which had been rebuilt and stored wrapped in plastic by the owner. When the restoration company unwrapped the motor they found that a lot of the internals had severe rust and required a full rebuild. The motor had not been turned over to coat the internals with oil before storage and the captive moisture did the damage.

 

Bob_Spidell

Yoda

Offline

• Dec 6, 2018

• #12

grimes6 said:

A couple of years ago I saw an engine which had been rebuilt and stored wrapped in plastic by the owner. When the restoration company unwrapped the motor they found that a lot of the internals had severe rust and required a full rebuild. The motor had not been turned over to coat the internals with oil before storage and the captive moisture did the damage.

Click to expand...

Well, now we know what happens when you don't pickle an engine. Anybody properly pickled one--presumably this would require a test stand run-in--with good results?

Side note: Some aircraft piston engines have chromed cylinder walls. The practice started around WWII with Navy carrier-based, piston-powered aircraft engines to prevent rusting of the cylinder walls in the high-salt environment.

 

OP

Csarneson

Jedi Hopeful

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• Dec 6, 2018

• #13

Ha! Randy is right that I should have put off the engine until the end but my car came to me in a bunch of dusty and rusty boxes. I really had no idea what I had and what parts I would need to hunt for. I sorted the chassis first and got it painted butI felt compelled to get the block, head, and major internals figured out before I could move on. Ultimately I replaced the head and had to have some machining on the block. I appreciate all the advice. I think I’m going to get it running this winter.

Chris

 

Randy Forbes

Yoda

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• Dec 6, 2018

• #14

It is what it is, and the only thing is to go on from here, right?

Touching on Bob's comments, yes, it could be preserved properly (aircraft mechanics do it all the time, right?) but throughout the build process, if you follow the line of thought to keeping the chassis "loaded" during rocker, sill and floor panel replacements, puts the cosmetic finish of the engine in jeopardy. Options would be to utilize a scrap/donor engine (so long as it mimic'd the approximate weight with crank, rods, head, cam, etc.) or put off final engine painting for a couple years/appropriate time frame.

I'm not arguing that the pull to build the engine early can be strong; maybe a local Healey owner will offer to keep yours "warm" for you, while he generously loans you his engine for the rough & tumble work ahead... ?

 

John Turney

Yoda

Silver

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• Dec 6, 2018

• #15

Randy Forbes said:

It is what it is, and the only thing is to go on from here, right?

...
I'm not arguing that the pull to build the engine early can be strong; maybe a local Healey owner will offer to keep yours "warm" for you, while he generously loans you his engine for the rough & tumble work ahead... ?

Click to expand...

Somehow, I don't see a lot of local Healey owners in Wyoming.

 

Bob_Spidell

Yoda

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• Dec 6, 2018

• #16

John Turney said:

Somehow, I don't see a lot of local Healey owners in Wyoming.

Click to expand...

OK, who has an AHCUSA Resource Book handy (mine's packed away). I'll bet there's a few; like one per every 10,000 square miles.

 

R

RestoreThemAll

Jedi Warrior

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• Dec 7, 2018

• #17

I stored my engine (block and head separate) for 3years coated in lucas oil. The really heavy, sticky treatment. I could reach all of the parts with the head and pan off. They were wrapped but not tightly. Impossible to get that heavy stuff in the oil gallery and small coolant areas. I had to go back and hit those with machinist brushes

 

T

twas_brillig

Jedi Knight

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• Dec 8, 2018

• #18

Don't wrap the engine. I expect that condensation/moisture isn't a biggy in Wyoming so that risk is decreased. Different folks have different suggestions, but mine would be to leave the spark plugs out (stick rags or something to keep crud out, and turn it over by hand once a month. Tape over the intakes/exhaust. Some folks swear by fogging oil, even for an over winter storage - I would suggest spraying some in a couple of times a year. And I've also tried pouring a bit of two-stroke oil into cylinders, so there's a bit of oil trapped above the rings when you turn the engine over that 'should' burn off when you do fire it up. If you're into the type of body/frame work Randy mentioned (concerns about 'loading' the chassis, consider half a dozen sidewalk blocks laid over the frame rails for the engine and one across the transmission area. They're about a hundred pounds each, so easy to approximate the weight of the engine/transmission. Get an engine hoist for moving them around - a lot easier on body parts. Doug

 

glemon

Yoda

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• Dec 9, 2018

• #19

I am curious, why is the engine one of the last things for a total restoration? Because it might sit for a long time and rust internally and you don't know how long it is going to sit? Because if you don't finish it you are going to sell it at a major loss and the engine is another sunk cost you won't get back? Just curious.

 

B

bob hughes

Luke Skywalker

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• Dec 14, 2018

• #20

I once met a lady who owned a Marcos and she dumped her engine into a drum of diesel. She was an Architect on my project. Not sure if she ever got it working again as we parted company when I moved on. I can not see what harm could be done, it is an oil after all and you would need just to clean the waterways out. UNLESS some rust deposits got loose then it would be a strip down.



Bob