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Shock mount problems

trotti

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I have a 100/6 that I've been slowly rehabbing. As background, it's in great condition, but it seems to have never had its shakedown cruise before sitting for over a decade after the rebuild (the PO had health issues and it eventually found its way to me). This makes it a weird combination of everything being freshly rebuilt/replaced, but some things left undone or suffering from the effects of its long storage. I haven't driven it much due to: a) I have an MGA that is bullet proof and serves to get me out on the road, and b) until recently I haven't had much time for these types of projects.

Over the last few weeks, however, I've been able to rebuild the carbs and do a full tune up to get it running right, and then take it on drives to start chasing the gremlins. The latest gremlin was very poor handling when hitting a bump. Loud, jarring sounds coming from the front end and unending squeaks from the back. On the back side, the U bolts holding down the springs took a lot of tightening. They weren't about to come off, but they definitely were not snug. I also tightened the leaf mounting bolts on either end. There's significantly less squeak, but it's not gone. I didn't check at the time because I was focused on the leaf springs, but I also think the shock may be loose on the back passenger side. The reason I now think to check shocks: the front left shock was essentially unbolted . . . all four screws. That's an easy fix, right? Snug down the four bolts into the mounting plate and I'm done! Unfortunately, it never seems to be that easy. Two of the four bolts went in fine, but the other two are missing their captive nuts on the mounting plate. I can see down into the holes of the shock and the nuts are simply not there. For $hits and giggles, I took the car out to test with those two bolts snugged tight (it can't be worse than having driven it unbolted) and the ride significantly improved.

So - thoughts on simply using a nut and washer for the other two screws on the shock? I'm thinking I should also use thread locker on these bolts. There was anti-seize on all and I think that's why the two with captive nuts may have backed out. Getting to those bolts will be a bear with the spring in the way. Any tips or tricks on spring removal?
 

steveg

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Tom's Import Toys sells a plate which replaces the captive nuts. You have to partially saw off the end of the shock mount enough to open up the area with the captive nuts; then you knock them out and insert the plate; then weld up the end.

screenshot.1430.jpg
 
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trotti

trotti

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Sounds easy enough - I'll bring the beer and sandwiches. How does this weekend work for you?

Keeping with my theme of using this car as a bit of an education, this may be the project that forces me to learn how to weld. I hear it's easy . . .
 

vette

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Trotti, you can do it with a Mig. Just practice a little before you work on your car. I did this repair many years ago before I was accustom to taking pictures during my work. At the time I'm not sure that anyone supplied a fitted plate. I bought 3/8" plate and cut it to size then slid it in place and marked my bolt hole location with a self centering punch thru the existing holes in the top plate. You can actually do this with very little welding. You cut out the side wall (the side facing the tire) to the shock mount plate, use a cut off wheel or sabre saw. Then the nuts will be exposed. Knock the nuts off with a chisel, slide the new plate under the mount plate. Mark it, drill it, tap it then reinsert it. Bolt the shock in place. The existing holes in the shock mount plate will locate the shock in exactly its original position. With the shock bolted up. Just weld the outer edge of the new 3/8th plate. Then replace the piece you cut out or a newly fabbed one then weld it back in place. Easy Peasey.
 
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trotti

trotti

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steveg - thanks for the tip and also thanks for the photos you have on your website.

vette - thanks for the description and vote of confidence. Anything labeled easy peasey has to be a cinch, right?

Doesn't look like the easiest thing in the world for my first weld job, but I'll have to learn at some point! I'm going to try to take some detailed photos along the way to produce a step-by-step for those next afflicted with this issue.

The plates are on order and a visit to the tool shop is in order.
 

steveg

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I forgot to mention on the front shock plates from Tom's: I was not able to get all the captive nuts loose by hitting with a big punch from the side. What really worked for me was to run a short bolt into the nut enough to have all the threads engaged and have the head of the bolt up at least 1/4" from the surface, then hit the bolt straight down with your lead hammer - that got them loose pretty easily.

Addendum: if the threads are stripped, tap the captive nut for metric M10 size and use a 10mm bolt.
 
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Go to a local place (Ace Hdwr, HD, Lowe's, etc.) and buy a few strips/pcs of steel that is approximately the same thickness as what you plan to weld. Practice on these pieces until you get the machine settings right (PLENTY of you tube vids on what PROPER PENETRATION looks like) and you can produce repeatable, strong welds. Try to break them apart once welded; when they look half decent (and a 4" grinder can help you there) and the steel tears before the weld breaks, you're ready to weld on the car.

I cannot recommend this strongly enough: get a MIG that uses "solid" wire and shielding gas (75/25% Argon/CO2 mix for mild steel) as it will produce much (MUCH, MUCH) cleaner looking welds. The "flux core" variety of wire produces welds that look like bird-poop (sitting on top of the substrate instead of melted into it) even with an experienced weldor at the helm.

MIG welding IS easy-peasy; mess with the scraps for about a 1/2-hour, go watch some more y/t vids and probably within another 1/2-hr you'll be ready to do some permanent welding! Note, note so much applicable here, but if you have to weld overhead, just turn the wire-feed speed up a little bit__makes a big difference in defying gravity ;)
 

Bob_Spidell

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I guess I don't have the knack; I used a MIG for years before I started to get the hang of it. There are things that aren't covered in the videos--and I watched dozens, mostly weldingtipsandtricks.com--and none of them mentioned what (I think) put me over the top: visibility. Unless you're under 40--and I doubt many of us here are--your close-in vision probably sucks. Of course, you need a good auto-darkening helmet, but you can't set it too dark lest you see nothing but a white blur (and too light and you'll hurt your eyes; I believe they call it 'flash eye' or similar). The second thing is, even a 'cheater' lens in the helmet isn't the best--and glasses won't fit--so I learned to do my welding before I put my contact lenses in. But, yeah, once you get the hang of it you think 'Gee, this is a piece of cake.' Also, my MIG is a cheap Costco special and sometimes stalls out the wire feed (very frustrating).

I finally got a chance to take welding classes--which start tomorrow--at the local JC. Unfortunately, they make you take gas and stick first, probably because everybody would just take MIG and TIG and, I'm guessing they cover all the safety stuff--and there's a lot--in the 'intro' class.
 
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Bob_Spidell

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Am I correct in thinking that if you want to adjust camber with these plates that you have to elongate the existing holes (in addition to knocking the captive nuts out)? Also, presumably, you can adjust caster by enlarging the holes front and back (but not excessively)? Also too, you could inadvertently change caster if you didn't elongate left/right correctly? But, if you make the holes too big the 'ears' on the shocks might not have enough surface to ride on?

I guess, if you only want to tweak camber, you would scribe a straight line between the centers of the existing holes and elongate along the scribe line?



Tom's Import Toys sells a plate which replaces the captive nuts. You have to partially saw off the end of the shock mount enough to open up the area with the captive nuts; then you knock them out and insert the plate; then weld up the end.

View attachment 55079
 

steveg

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Yes, you'd have to elongate the holes to get more camber than you would installing an offset upper trunnion kit.

I was only looking to replace the captive nuts and not looking for more camber.

Your idea of scribing sounds like a good one for adding camber or making sure you get the shock back in the exact same place. In any case, measure carefully.
 
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