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Directionals, Still a Pain

RAC68

Darth Vader
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Hi All,

After Rebuilding the Flasher Relay Box with 8-terminal DPDT relays, all seemed to preform much better then the original. However, just when I thought I could put this issue behind me. However, my still had some issues to resolve in the for of dash indicators lights not performing consistently and sometimes not at all. To make matters worse, although the signal lights performed correctly, the dash indicators would sometimes show the wrong side. Going through the wiring, all seemed correct and, although I did find a broken bullet connector relating to the dash indicator lights, there was no change as a result of replacing the component.

So, another day on this frustrating project and I began to wonder. Since I wired the reflector a while back to mirror that brake / turn signal light of the side, what if I eliminated the Flasher Relay Box and dedicate the reflector lights to the Turn Signals. This would allow the second rear main-bulb filaments to be dedicated to the Brakes (as in the BJ8 Phase 2). Although this would require running an additional line rearward for the dedicated brake lights, the original turn signal wiring can be used.

So, what are the thoughts of having the LEDs installed behind the red reflector lenses dedicated to the Turn Signal function? Do you think they will be obvious enough for that function? Or, should I keep the Flasher Relay Box and clear up problems with causing the present Dash indicator issue?

Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
D

Deleted member 21878

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i would think with as much work as you have done on the car, you would want it to work properly here.

did you check that all your dash ground wires were in place?
 
OP
RAC68

RAC68

Darth Vader
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Hi All,

Drone Dog,
i would think with as much work as you have done on the car, you would want it to work properly here.

did you check that all your dash ground wires were in place?

You are absolutely correct and I will continue to resolve all issues. However, I am looking forward and wonder if a simpler solution would be better and more reliable and worry-free. Although I do like Healey projects, I would rather they be of my choice rather then those imposed by fault.

As far as the Dash Grounds, I have only started mapping the circuits and checked some line continuities. I have created long-line additions for my Multimeter in order to check continuities between the Flasher Relay box and the Directional Indicators under dash. As I have gotten older, I have less desire in crawling under the dash but that will have to happen.

A lot to do and the any wire disturbed could result in another issue until all is good.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
D

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we have a lot in common....
age
like projects to be by choice
don't like working on car during driving season

hang in there!
logic says that if they all worked before and the only place you worked was the relay... then probably something there is the issue.
 

ozhealey

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Ray,

You are a trooper and I am sure you will figure it out.

I have changed my BJ7 to have separate brake and turn signal lights similar to the BJ8 phase 2. This allowed me to totally remove the relay and it is in a box in the shed. I changed the rear reflectors to small amber small turn signal lights which look like a small Lucas bumblebee lights. I used amber as Australia does not have red turn signals in cars on our roads and hence with bright amber turn signals I feel somewhat safer. On the front I changed to halogen headlights with a self contained park light. This allowed me to change the front combination park/turn lens to an amber Lucas bumblebee lens and it too is now just a turn signal. I decided to run a separate wire for the brakes lights from the pressure switch in the engine bay to the trunk along the chassis with the original battery cable. All of this will allow me to change back to original very easily.

I now have a glass fuel filter on the wheel arch where the relay used to be.

Cheers
Tony
 
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RAC68

RAC68

Darth Vader
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Hi All,

Let me first start by explaining my motivation for quickly addressing my turn signal issue. Recently a good friend was complaining that he had been incorrectly given a traffic ticket for not using his turn signals and, if he looses in court, will cost him over $300 + a possible insurance increase. That afternoon, my Turn Signals failed and, in this day and age, I expect very few drivers would understand manual hand signaling. Since average speeds and congestion on area roads approach ridiculous, not having turn signals could be very dangerous. further, thinking about the issue and hand signaling, I could see getting a ticket for waiving my arms out the window (left turn) or saying Hi when signaling right turns. As a result, the Flasher Relay box project.

Tony,
The thought of changing my red reflectors to amber seem very interesting as it does signal (pun intended) that the light is a turn signal. changing the setup as you have described and also implemented in the BJ8 P2, was not my original objective when starting this project. To just remove the unit for rebuild, I was forced to remove the cold air duct to access the 2 top anchoring screws. This required the removal of the front fender and, for that, the door. As a result, much of the wiring under the dash was disturbed and may have been the cause of my dash turn indicator problems.

Thanks again Tony for your thoughts and, if I do as you have, the idea of using amber lenses.

All the best,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
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pkmh

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Hi All,

Let me first start by explaining my motivation for quickly addressing my turn signal issue. Recently a good friend was complaining that he had been incorrectly given a traffic ticket for not using his turn signals and, if he looses in court, will cost him over $300 + a possible insurance increase. That afternoon, my Turn Signals failed and, in this day and age, I expect very few drivers would understand manual hand signaling. Since average speeds and congestion on area roads approach ridiculous, not having turn signals could be very dangerous. further, thinking about the issue and hand signaling, I could see getting a ticket for waiving my arms out the window (left turn) and also thought about what I would do for right turns with the top up? As a result, the Flasher Relay box project.

Tony,
The thought of changing my red reflectors to amber seem very interesting as it does signal (pun intended) that the light is a turn signal. changing the setup as you have described and also implemented in the BJ8 P2, was not my original objective when starting this project. To just remove the unit for rebuild, I was forced to remove the cold air duct to access the 2 top anchoring screws. This required the removal of the front fender and, for that, the door. As a result, much of the wiring under the dash was disturbed and may have been the cause of my dash turn indicator problems.

Thanks again Tony for your thoughts and, if I do as you have, the idea of using amber lenses.

All the best,
Ray(64BJ8P1)

Hi Ray, You failed to say that "EVEN" if I win, it's still going to cost me $350.00. Hopefully, your woes will be resolved.

PS - Don't do as video below shows.

Good luck!

Paul



giphy.gif
 
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D

Deleted member 21878

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funny story
i was driving the TD a few years back and stopped at the end of the road. i was turning right so i gave the hand signal. went on down the road and made the next right... again with the proper hand signal. i noticed a car turned right behind me and flashed it lights a couple of times. thinking something must be wrong i pulled off the side of the road. two young guys pulled up besinde me and asked me what they did wrong. i was a bit puzzled and said, i have no idea. they said, then why did you give us the finger?
took me a second but then i started laughing and explained the car did not have turn signals. i guess they do not even teach hand signals anymore. after we talked about the TD a few minutes, they went off laughing also. but i sat and wondered how many other people think i had flipped them off. since then i always use an open hand when doing a turn signal.
 
OP
RAC68

RAC68

Darth Vader
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Hi All,

Drone Dog, your followers seem quite polite about getting the finger. What are my chances of the same misunderstanding receiving that response?

Battled with storms and power outages for the last 2 days and did little to address the directional issue. However, When evaluating the power transfers, I find close to battery level power transferring to the Flasher Relay Box (FRB) from the trafficator to signal terminal (#4 Left or #8 right) However, power transmitted from the FRB to the signal lights and dash indicators seems to start at 10+ volts and winds down with every successive click of the Flasher down to 1+ volt before rewinding up and starting down again. Power to these FRB terminals is received from the Flasher and further investigation seems to show this same cycle-down voltage transmitted to the FRB Turn-Signal terminal #1. I will be looking to change the Flasher to see if this pattern is the result of a faulty unit. Since the Flasher receives its power from Fuse terminal #4, the Flasher connector also provides this fuse power to the Trafficator as well and I expect battery level power is being supplied to both units.

The difficulty of tracking this issue is in not knowing what to expect as far as voltage levels and I would appreciate any power levels as I did expect the terminals mentioned to transmit and receive close to battery level and not this descending power cycle.

Here's hopping I can keep the lights on … in the Garage and on the car,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
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RAC68

RAC68

Darth Vader
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Hi All,

As yet I have not found why power coming from the Flasher is cycling downward on each consecutive click from 10+ Volts through to 1+ Volts before starting over at 10+ Volts. As power gets lower, it does explain why the dash directional indicators stop displaying but doesn't explain why the outside turn signal lights flash brightly at all flasher voltages.

First, why is Voltage deteriorating and not amperage? Also, why isn't the constant battery power, received at the Flasher "B" terminal from #4 of the Fuse Box, not being transmitted at an equally high and constant voltage to the "Signal Terminal" #1 at the Flasher Relay Box? Although there is a possibility that the Flasher is at fault, it does click at a consistent rates and interrupt power as expected.

I have created a diagram of how power flows during a Right Hand Turn Signal. As you can see, there is little that could cause the reduction of Voltage as described. At this point, I am at a loss to explain the condition and any ideas would be appreciated.

Power Flow Right Turn Signal.jpg
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
D

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Ray
i have a BT7 so my set up is different. i am sure there are others here who can give better advice.

but not sure i understand the wire from the no2 terminal to the dash light. i thought the dash lights got all their power from the flasher only. but again i have a BT7 wiring diagram which is probably different
fl_test.gif
 

ozhealey

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Drone dog,

You are absolutely right for our configurations (BT7 and BJ7) however Ray’s car as a phase 1 had separate left and right dash turn signal bulbs like the phase 2 BJ8 (or at least I think they did??). So with our cars the single bulb was wired direct from the “P” terminal to the bulb and the other side went to earth. If Ray did this then both dash lights would light up at the same time regardless of which way he was turning and so the BJ8 needed a different configuration to get the dash lights to work independently.

In reality, the BJ8 did not need a three terminal flasher and could have simply connected the dash bulbs to the same circuit used by the front and rear lights and then to earth. They could then have used a two terminal flasher.

Ray,

I just tried to post a long list of ideas, but for some reason it appears to have gone into the web somewhere and is lost. Assuming I am correct above regarding your dash light configuration, one test I would do for starters is to remove the “P” connections on your flasher and bulb lights. Then simply connect the side of the dash bulbs which originally went to your “P” connection to now go directly to earth. See what happens??

If this does not change anything, we can dig further. Modern electronics (if you have any like an electronic flasher, LED bulb, or solid state relays) can cause havoc with old cars as they can be “sympathetically” energised by residual voltage and/or current which do not affect the older mechanical devices.

Let us know how you go.

Cheers
Tony
 
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RAC68

RAC68

Darth Vader
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Hi All and thank you for your Responses. They are very much appreciated.

Tony, your idea makes good sense. If the dash light is gaining power from the "L" terminal on the Flasher as gaited through Terminal #2 or #6 of the Flasher Relay Box with the side Directional Lights, It stands to reason that grounding the dash bulb would allow it to light when power is applied and interrupted along with the side flashing lights.

However, when evaluating the diagram of for the Flasher, it is evident that the Flasher Relay Signal Terminal (#1) is being fed Power from the "L" of the Flasher and power to the Dash Indicators are being supplied from the "P" terminal of the Flasher. When evaluating the Flasher Relay Box, Power is passed to terminals #2 & 3 for Right Hands indicators and terminals #6 & 7 for Left Hand turn indicators.

Grounds:
Dash Indicators get power through connections to terminals #2 or #6, depending on the direction being selected. In the case of the external directional lights, the bulbs are supplied a Ground at the socket end, however, the dash indicators are connected to the Flasher "P" terminal which also supplies power. Since power is being fed to the Dash Indicators vial the Flasher Relay Box and the "P" terminal of the Flasher, where is the ground for the Dash Indicators?

Since the Dash indicators do light, there must be a ground and I would have expected this to be supplied via the Flasher connector. However, when tested, power is being supplied at Flasher terminal "P" as well as the Flasher Relay terminals and the only thing I can think of is that the Flasher becomes the ground when at the click when power is being interrupted on the Flasher cycle. This would mean that the "P" terminal is a 2-way connection and when power is supplied by the Flasher, the Dash indicators are turned OFF even though some Lower then necessary level of power is present. When power is interrupted at the Flasher, it switches to becoming a ground and the Dash Indicator is turned ON. This would indicate that the lighting cycle of the external lights is exactly opposite that of the Dash Indicators.

Any Thoughts? Could I be correct?

Ray(64BJ8P1)
 

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  • Power Flow Example (Rt hand turn).jpg
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ozhealey

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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Ray,[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Sorry for the delay in response. Being across the other side of the world does not make realtime communications all that easy.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Your logic is sound and your descriptions are very good. I will try to answer your questions as best I can, I am not always great on paper, I am much better at just doing, but I will attempt to describe the flasher and the relay box systems and relate back to you current circumstances. Here we go.......[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Your ground question for the dash bulbs..... In the BJ8 phase 1, the dash bulbs get their ground through the turn signal bulbs. The 12v from “P” passes through the dash bulb and then goes to ground through the turn signal bulbs. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]As I noted in my previous post, depending on what type of relays you have used in your modernised relay box, which type of flasher (bi-metallic, electric relay, or electronic) and whether you are using any LED bulbs, sympathetic activation of these components from residual (invisible to most old components) voltages can cause problems. This is why simply replacing incandescent bulbs with LEDs can cause problems if not done correctly because they can turn on at voltages which incandescent bulbs will not. Your flasher or relays, depending on the type, could be exhibiting these problems.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]FLASHER UNIT:[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]As I described earlier, the BJ8 phase 1 does not actually need a three terminal flasher unit, a two terminal unit (“B” and “L” only) would have been sufficient and in my opinion a better configuration. However....[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]As you know, on my car and on the earlier 3000’s and 100/6 cars we had separate turn signals but a single common dash lamp indicator. For that reason, a three terminal flasher with the “P” (pilot) function was necessary. This allowed the dash light to flash whenever the flasher clicked regardless of which way you were turning. So on my car, the voltage passes from the “L” terminal on the flasher to the front and rear turn signal lights and then to earth. Originally this was through the relay box, however as I have previously stated I converted my lights to separate brake and turn signals by using the reflector location for a turn signal so the relay box is no longer needed. For my single dash bulb, the power is provided from the “P” terminal to the single dash bulb and then to earth.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]When the BJ8 phase 1 came along, the only change to turn signal and brake lights was to provide directional lights on the dash (two bulbs). Unfortunately this needed a change to the wiring. If your “P” terminal was used to activate the dash bulbs like my configuration (other side of the bulb straight to earth), both bulbs would flash at the same time regardless of which way you turn. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]This is why I suggested you try just powering the dash bulbs from terminals #2 and #6 on your relay box and disconnect the other side of the bulb from the “P” terminal and just go to earth (the bulbs not the “P” terminal).[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I was just about to describe the relay box with a picture however when I just searched the web for an internal diagram to help, I came across this Moss tech video which I had not seen before. You are probably all over this already noting you have rebuilt your box.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]https://www.gtsparkplugs.com/flashers-turn-signal.html[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Cheers[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Tony[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
 
OP
RAC68

RAC68

Darth Vader
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Hi All,

Tony, thanks for your input as it was very helpful.

Today, I started checking rechecked the wiring on the Flasher Relay Box, Flasher, and Dash Indicators and found an issue with the second lead on the #2 terminal (Right Hand front turn signal + Rt Dash Signal Indicator) not making a secured connection, an additional Dash Indicator wiring issue from a broken 3-point bullet connector which gates power from the Flasher to both Dash Indicator lights was found and fixed. These 2 issues can be attributed to collateral damage from my present activities and did not exist prior.

After fixing the found issue, I then needed to find how the Dash Indicators were being grounded as they do light. When analyzing the circuitry, it seems the ground for each dash light terminates at a Flasher Relay Box terminal (#6 for Left turns and #2 for Right Turns). These terminals, #6/#2 also supply power to the Front Left and Right outside turn signals as well and these lights have grounds. So, with power going to Light the front outside signal and Power from the same FRB terminal and Power from the Flasher "P" terminal both going to the appropriate Dash Indicator, how does a Dash indictors light, with no Ground, Light?

It turns out that when in the OFF cycle, Flasher Relay Box terminals #6/#2 go to Ground and supply the appropriate Dash Indicator with a Ground to counter the power coming from the Flasher and LIGHTS. When power is provided through FRB terminals #6/#2 to the front Signal Lights having a local Ground, the front signals light. However, when power is supplied to the Dash Indicator from the FRB terminals and power is also supplied from the Flasher, NO Ground is present and the Dash Indicator Does NOT Light. So, the key to the Dash Signal Lights are that they are OFF when receiving power from both sources and ON when the FRB terminal is in its OFF Cycle and providing a path to Ground.

So, as I see it, the Dash Indicators should light on the opposite cycle of the Front turn signals. Although this seems to be true and I do now have Dash Indicators (broke one of the indicators in the process), and still have to verify this logic.

Since, after no issues in this space for 54 years of use, I can't say the original was a problematic. Because the BJ8 Phase 1 is the only Healy using this logic, it dramatically increased the rarity of common knowledge for issues in this space and also diminishes interest in pursuing a solution. As the one in the middle of this issue, I really appreciate the assistance received and especially Tony's thoughts and counsel.

Thanks to all and will provide the final conclusion,
Ray(64BJ8P1) Since NEW
 

ozhealey

Member
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Ray,[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]You are really getting into this issue and I am impressed. Could I offer my thoughts on the logic which you describe in the paragraph starting “[/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-BoldItalic]it turns out when in the OFF cycle”[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. I assume by OFF cycle you mean the short period when the blinkers go off before they light again in the ON-OFF-ON-OFF cycle??[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I refer to your sentence “[/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-BoldItalic]So, the key to the Dash Signal Lights are that they are OFF when receiving power from both sources and ON when the FRB terminal is in its OFF Cycle and providing a path to Ground.”[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Clearly the “L” and “P” voltages are provided ON and OFF at the same time, noting the bi-metallic strip bends to short “L” and “P” together from “B”. So power arrives at these connections at the same time every time. Although there is a small warming voltage on “L” all the times due to the high resistance heater coil. So I don’t see how the dash lamp can light in opposite rotation to the front lamp (ie. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]when the FRB terminal is in its off cycle[/FONT][FONT=&quot]). When the FRB terminal is in its OFF cycle (no power from “L”) so is the “P” terminal (no power from “P”).[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Terminals #2 and #6 on the FRB do go to the left and right front turn signal lights. The only earth they have regardless of whether or not they have voltage applied is through the front turn signal bulbs. If you are seeing a direct earth at either terminal #2 or #6 then I suspect your voltmeter is reading a short however depending on the scale and accuracy it should actually read the low resistance of the front bulb (around 6ohms from memory). There should not be a direct earth at any time on terminal#2 or #6. This path is however the earth path for the dash bulbs through the front bulbs.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]This is not quite the same configuration as your car, but it may help to describe what I mean by the earth path through the front bulbs:[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=auLY6IYeqcI[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]The whole video is good, but the section starting at minute 7:40 will explain what I am talking about.

Cheers
Tony[/FONT][/FONT]
 
OP
RAC68

RAC68

Darth Vader
Offline
Tony,

I very much appreciate your perspective and must agree that my preliminary conclusion has a definite flaw. Both the Flasher and the Rebuilt FRB have grounds, as did the original FRB. It is difficult to see a time when the Flasher would provide power to the Dash indicators and the FRB would not when the FRB Signal terminal is fed from the "L" terminal of the Flasher. It is true that the Flasher feeds a line to the dash that splits to feed both Directional bulbs with the specific unit gated by inputs from FRB Terminals #6 Lf. or #2 Rt. I initially thought the connection to the Flasher provided the ground since power was coming from either FRB Terminal #6 or #2 to light the appropriate Outside Front Directional bulb.

My problem is as you have indicated, where is the GROUND. If sufficient power is coming from both the Flasher and FRB to light a front bulb, a easy path to a convenient Outside indicator lamp would be wiped out. If power is going to both Dash Indicators from the Flasher, I would conclude that the ground must be coming from the FRB to qualify the appropriate Dash bulb. Also, if the Power level at Flasher "P" is not much different from that coming from terminal "L" at the same time slices, I would seam reasonable to conclude that the ground was being extended by and/or though a specific FRB terminal. However, where this goes astray is that if power is being provided to the Signal side of the FRB by the Flasher then power would be on from both sides and at the same time (given milliseconds of transfer delay).

So, it appears I am no closer to finding where the Dash Indicators are getting their grounds.

Although changing the flasher connections to a 2 connections, disconnecting the "P" terminal, and providing each Dash Indicator Bulb with its own ground would seem to satisfy both power and designation (power coming from FRB #6 or #2), I would really like to find the answer to the original circuit.

Update (7/23): Having not found the grounds for the Dash Directionals but appearing as though all was working, I put all together and took a test drive. Although the outer directional appear to be performing correctly, the dash indicators are not. It appears the Left dash indicator flashes along with their external directional counterparts but the Right dash indicator is inconsistent and sometimes causes both to glow. This result usually indicates that the ground for the right dash indicator is lost and its power is sourcing the closest it can find.

As this is not a good situation and I still have no idea where the dash indicators are getting their ground, I will try eliminating the Flasher "P" connection and providing a ground for each dash indicator. Since the original dash indicator grounds were meant to be secured at an outer directional bulb to validate, if it lights, that the outer directional are working. By eliminating this external connection, the dash indicators will no longer mirror the outer directional operation but will validate that the external ground loss is the issue.

Again, thanks for all your help and ideas,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
Last edited:
OP
RAC68

RAC68

Darth Vader
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Hi All,

To continue this saga, I disconnected the P terminal connections from the dash lights and installed a lead from each bulb to a ground at the gauge mounts. Although this setup eliminates having the dash lights mirroring and validating the performance of the outer signal lignts, it would provide a clear and bright indicator of the signals activation. As it turns out, my initial analysis proved somewhat correct in that, the opposite dash indicator was beaming resulting in the dash indicator no match the signal switch setting.

So, what does this show? As previously thought, in the original configuration, power is being supplied to both Dash indicator bulbs from the "P" of the flasher. The FRB also provides power but only to the bulb not matching the switch setting. This power from the FRB cancels the illumination of the incorrect Dash bulb and leaves the bulb matching the switch illuminated. At this point, I can either exchange the dash bulb locations (side to side) to match the directional switch setting and external flasher operation or solve the issue of the lost ground path for the Right Dash indicator. Although I would like to do the latter, not yet being aware of any consequential problems if not taking this action, I am seriously considering just switching dash bulbs as this issue and FRB rebuild have caused the few not-raining days in this Summer season to be missed.

Thanks to all, especially Tony (oxhealey) for his valued help and direction and I will report if I find the ground.
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 

ozhealey

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Ray,

Thanks for the update. So can you confirm the following is the case when you disconnected the “P” function:

You now have the dash bulbs connected exactly the same as the front indicators.

In other words, the front right turn signal bulb is connected from FRB terminal #2 on one side and to earth on the other side of the bulb. The right dash bulb is also connected to FRB terminal #2 on one side and to earth on the other side.

The left bulbs go from FRB terminal #6 on one side and earth on the other.

If this is the case, then the only power to the turn signals and dash lights comes from the flasher “L” terminal. Assuming your modified FRB operates the same as the original FRB then the “L” terminal power gets to either FRB terminal #2 or #6 (never both) depending on the steering wheel selection. In other words, power at either FRB terminal #4 or #8 (which comes through the steering wheel switch) energises an FRB relay to latch power from FRB terminal #1 (“L”) to either FRB terminal #2 or #6.

If this is the case, how does any power go to the opposite dash bulb? There cant be power at both #2 and #6 at the same time unless your FRB is not functioning the same as the original.

Cheers
Tony
 
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RAC68

RAC68

Darth Vader
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Hi Tony,

Given the original configuration, power was broadcast to the both Dash Indicators from the "P" terminal of Flasher. Additionally, power was also fed from the NON-Selected directional to eliminate illumination. For example, when selecting a Right Turn, power would be transmitted to both Left and Right dash indicators along with power transmitted from FRB #2 to the Left Directional Indicator to cancel illumination. Since the Right Dash indicator has power coming from the Flasher "P" terminal only, it illuminates when it sources a Ground through the activated Right External circuit.

By disconnecting the Flasher "P" terminal from the Dash Indicators, only power from FRB #6 or #2 will be gated to power the Dash. However, since each was original gated to turn off the opposite dash indicator, power from FRB #6 was to the Left External Directionals and the Right Dash Indicator and FRB #2 to the Right External Directionals and Left Dash Indicator. To correct this condition, the dash indicator destinations must be switched. So, now FRB #6 Dash connected bulb is installed in the Right Dash Indicator and FRB #2 bulb is now installed in the Left Dash Indicator.

Why the complexity?
Keep in mind that the purpose of the FRB is to allow Brake and Signal functions to coexist on the same bulb filaments. Additionally, sourcing a dash Directional bulb Ground through the activated signal circuit validates that external signaling is taking place (no dash Indicator would signal a fault in the system). Although the Left Dash Light sourced its Ground at the FRB, as appropriate, the Right Dash Light could not find the Ground and caused the Left Dash Indicator to glow (circuit problem)

Why did I add the new grounds instead of correcting the issue?
Since finding the fault in the Right Circuit became a frustrating task, I determined to forgo this fault function for the present, leaving the Dash Indicators as a reflection of direction selected and activation. However, this issue will be fixed correctly this Winter.

Thanks again Tony,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
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