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TR2/3/3A Siff steering

RonR

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Folks,

The entire front suspension of my 1960 TR3A was recently rebuilt using the Roadster Factory’s "magic" kit.

The steering is still very hard to operate, even with the front tires in the air. Full turn left and right almost locks the wheels in place. The new suspension components did not improve the steering.

I don’t think the steering gearbox was rebuilt or the steering idler unit, although I believe both were cleaned and new Penrite oil added.

Any suggestions what might be the cause, or is just the way these cars are?
 

Alfred E. Neuman

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If the steering is the same stiffness after you rebuild all the wear components in the front suspension, the culprit is likely the steering box. There's a good chance that someone tried to adjust out looseness due to a worn worm gear by tightening the rocker and pin into the worm.
You (or whoever did the rebuild) would have definitely felt the tightness if it was in the trunions. They screw onto the front upright. That and the upper ball joint are what let your wheels turn left and right. A good test to find the source would be to pop the tie rod ends out of either the steering arm on the uprights and turn each wheel left/right by hand and then turn the steering wheel to feel for tighness. If it's still there, it's in the steering box or column somewhere.
I don't think it's likely it's in the idler. I've never had one seize, just get loose from wear, but others may have seen this.
 
D

Deleted member 8987

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Just a suggestion, if you are able.
Pop the pittman arm off the box or the pin bush into the pittman loose, then try turning front wheels with nose in the air. This will narrow your search to steering box or suspension.

If box turns freely, but wheels do not, you can pop tie rod ends loose to check each suspension side.
 

TR3driver

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Definitely not the way it should be!

I would ignore the "freshly rebuilt" aspect, as obviously something went wrong; and start isolating components to identify the problem. Personally, I would start with the outer tie rod ends, but that's just because it's hard to remove the silentblocs (where the idler and Pitman arms join the center link) without damaging them.

Just using Penrite will make the steering stiffer than it should be, but that's not the reason for what you describe.

Oh, and I have seen idler arms bind up. Most recently, it was one that had relatively few miles on it. The DCM (dumb current mechanic) neglected to remove the paint overspray on the trunnion portion, and it formed a ball that made it bind. But I've also seen it from rust when they weren't kept lubricated.

Another possibility (that might have been overlooked) is a bent vertical link. They can feel fine when threading on the trunnion casting; but bind up after you connect the upper ball joint. You can look for that by disconnecting the ball joint from the VL, and watching the hole while you turn the VL (with the tie rod disconnected).
Herman van den Akker once wrote of finding a bent VL on his daughter's TR3A, and having to go through 5 of them to find one straight one!
 
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RonR

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Folks.

Everything, other than the steering box, turns freely once the steering box is disconnected. Good to know nothing was wrong with the new suspension installation.

Current problem is how to get the steering box our of the car in order to rebuild it.
Everything is lose, except for the joint in the column, It will not separate at the joint. But, I have the steering wheel off and th e stater tube removed so everything could be remove as a unit.

The steering box and column move front-to-rear.
The problem is that the steering column C-shaped support bracket, which is welded to the shock tower, will not allow the steering column to raise high enough for the steering box to clear the front of the recess in the frame.

I can push everything to the rear of the car to free the steering box from the back end of the frame recess, but cannot move the steering box far enough to the passenger side to clear the C-shaped support bracket or the side of the frame recess. The steering column hit’s the engine.

I must be missing something because I can’t believe that the engine needs moved in order to remove the steering column and box.

Any suggestions?
Thanks.
Ron
 

sp53

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I have never tried removing one with the apron on, but will it go out the bottom or through the grill hole with the car super high in the air?
the bolts and nuts have to come all the way out at spline if that helps
 

TR3driver

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Make sure the bolt is completely out of the clamp to the upper column. There is a notch so the joint can't come apart with the bolt in the hole even with no nut on it. IIRC I was able to get something in through the slot to help pry, but don't recall the details (something like 30 years ago). You can also tap on it, but don't forget there are bearings holding the shaft so don't get too carried away.

If you can't get the clamp undone, then I think you are going to have to take the engine loose and raise it a bit to get the tube out of that clamp. The earlier "solid column" cars didn't have that clamp, so there was plenty of room to lift the steering box up and pull it out the front (with the apron out of the way.
 

sp53

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If I remember correct with the 2 piece spline bolts off and undone and a bar under the steering box and lifting the box up and then tapping with a chunk of wood down on the bottom section; the steering box will slide forward and up and out, but yea the last ones I did were the solid columns without that half-moon bracket on the frame shock tower, and the 1961 I did had the engine out. Maybe you do have to lift the engine. What does the Haynes manual say?
 

TR3driver

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If you can separate the column halves, there should be no need to lift the engine. Just pry the box up until it clears the frame and pull it forward. It pivots at the clamp bracket and the back moves down where it was joined to the upper column.

If you can't separate the halves, then I think you'll have to lift the engine as well as undo all the clamps on the upper column. Might need to loosen the two bolts that clamp the box to its mounting bracket and/or apply some persuasion to move it out of the clamp bracket. The column will have to pivot around the hole on the firewall to let the box come up out of the frame.

PS, best I can tell, the Haynes only has the solid column instructions.
 

sp53

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I am sure I will get flack for this, but what I am doing isputting a split column into a car that does not have that bracket you aretalking about. I mean heck there are 2 bolts and 2 mounts at the bottom, even one under where theshock tower if you get one off an early car. On the second section there is one mount at the top on the firewall plusone under the dash and the good fit on the spline to hold everything together. WhatI am saying is I would remove that the top of C shape clamp and not look back. Well thatis what I am doing anyway. I cut that bracket off and old frame and was goingto weld it on, but decided not to—but, I do want the split column encase I needto rebuild the column. Heck you could cut the top of the bracket and welded itback if you want it is like 1/16 sheet metal . I need to stop and pled the fifth.

 
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RonR

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Thanks for all the help.
I got the joint separated and all went well. The upper bearing in the steering box was bad so I replaced all replaceable parts.

I needed additional shims, so I made the 30 minute drive out to that nasty Victoria British to get them. Of course, the holes for the end cover bolts were punched wrong in the new shims. I had to cut/file the holes to get them to line up.
 

sp53

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Good job---I was hoping it was able to come out that way, but I forgot; is not that drop arm a lot of xxxfun?
steve
 
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RonR

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Steve, yes, the drop arm was quite difficult getting off the tir rod silent block,

The worst part was trying to find tools after I laid them down. I hate working on my own cars. I seem to be a lot more patient when helping friends work on their cars.

We leave a week from tomorrow for VTR National in La Cross, Wisconsin. Hopefully, I will have everything back together several days early.

 
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