TR2/3/3A Gears grinding on first startup.....

I have a problem that mystifies me. When I first start up my '61 TR3A I have a terrible time getting it into gear for the first time.... I have tried everything I can think of....I try to go into reverse first, I try to sort of "double clutch it".....and it grinds.........I think I have the clutch adjusted properly to release, but I could be wrong..... Once I get it into gear after trying a while, it shifts just fine after that when I am running down the road.....

Anyone else ever experience this? If so, what was your remedy? If it matters, it's a factory overdrive transmission.

Thanks for any help or advice...

CuznBrucie

Hi Bruce. You mention you think you have the clutch adjusted properly. Could you tell us a bit about how you adjusted it, and what instructions you followed?

Thanks.
Tom M.

Double clutching only works while you are moving. When you are stopped, it can only make the problem worse.

Does it grind if you try to shift into 2nd gear first? Have you tried pumping up the clutch?

I find shifting to second then first works quite well. Cheers, Mike

You should be able to push in the clutch, count to 5, and it will slip into any gear without issue. If you count to 10 and still get a grind going into 1st or reverse, and difficulty going into other gears...then your clutch is dragging.

NutmegCT said:

Hi Bruce. You mention you think you have the clutch adjusted properly. Could you tell us a bit about how you adjusted it, and what instructions you followed?

Thanks.
Tom M.

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Tom...thank you for responding....

I guess I didn't use the word "I" properly. I said I thought I had the clutch adjusted properly because I own the car. I bought it two years ago as a restored car and it operated perfectly for the past year and maybe 7-8 months......I didn't personally adjust the clutch. It just started to act this way in the past 3-4 months, so I assumed the clutch was adjusted properly in the past.

I am really concerned about this quirk that has developed. I haven't tried to readjust it as I don't feel qualified and I haven't consulted any of the other folks in my club yet.

Thanks, Brucie

John.....thanks for responding.....I will try your suggestion. Stay tuned. Too **** hot to take it out for a drive right now!

mgedit said:

I find shifting to second then first works quite well. Cheers, Mike

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Thanks, Mike.......I have tried going into every one of the gears before attempting to move......seems like the easiest gear to get into is reverse, as that's the gear I need to get out of the garage!

Hi, Randall, and thanks for your response to my dilemma..... Can you please describe for me what it means to *Pump up the clutch*......thank you. Brucie

Clutch adjustment is to compensate for normal wear in the clutch friction plate; so it's something to be repeated from time to time. The TR3 manuals don't give a particular interval, but the TR4 (which has the same clutch) says every 3,000 miles. How often you actually need to do it will depend on things like your driving style, how much city driving you do and so on.

But lack of adjustment normally causes the clutch to slip rather than difficult shifting, so I doubt that's the issue here. The thing is, that there are several failure modes (particularly the dreaded taper pin) that show up as an inability to achieve the specified clutch adjustment. And, incorrect adjustment (as opposed to having it set right and then not updating it) can also cause problems.

"Pumping up" is just taking several quick strokes of the clutch pedal.

So, does it grind when you try to shift into 2nd gear? I realize that 2nd gear isn't particularly useful in terms of backing out of the garage, we're just trying to get a more complete picture of the symptoms in order to suggest the most likely failure.

But touching 2nd is also a normal technique for shifting into reverse without grinding; as reverse gear does not have synchromesh on these cars. Basically, to get into reverse, the gearbox input shaft has to not be turning. But, if you started the engine with the clutch out (or the clutch is dragging for whatever reason), the shaft will be turning. Touching 2nd uses the 2nd gear synchromesh to stop it (without grinding), so that you can then smoothly engage reverse.

Also, I don't think anyone asked: Have you checked the fluid level in the MC reservoir?

I had the same trouble with the Alfa on Sunday. They're notorious for weak synchros on 2nd gear and have a Porsche-supplied non-synchro first and reverse. No matter what I did, I could not snick it into first or reverse without terrible grinding. Finally I got it into reverse, backed out of the garage to the accompaniment of a terrible screech. Right back into the garage it went. Son came out later (he was visiting from MA) and managed to slip it into gear, back out and took for a short ride. Said everything was fine. Now, stepping on the clutch pedal produces a sharp, loud squeak. I believe the screech is unrelated - maybe a pulley. The squeak? Maybe bad throwout bearing, dry pivot on slave cylinder or broken clutch spring? This thing has a hydraulic clutch just like the TR6. Fluid is dirty but full. No leaks. Clutch catches near the top but online, I read they all do. Any ideas on how to improve the shifting? Maybe the gearbox oil is down or too thin or whatever, but I don't even know where the gearbox filler is. Someone recommended something called Redline 80/90. Anyone use it?

Did it sit for quite a while, months maybe over the winter and this started when you tried to take your first ride of the year? I'm thinking air in the lines backing up Randals suggestion about checking the fluid level. This happend to me over the winter where the clutch peddle went right to the floor the first time I started it up in the spring. I just filled the reservoir up and pumped the peddle until it got hard. Too lazy to bleed the system. This same symptom your describing is similar to what I've experienced. Hard to get into 1st then everything is great while driving and if I drive it the next day it's still ok. Just when It sits for a while I get that problem. Try bleeding the system.

Redline makes several different gear oils. I first tried their MT-90 about 20 years ago, and I'm a big fan. Made a very noticeable improvement in synchro action, giving smoother shifts (and fewer missed shifts).

But I'm not hearing anything here that I think it would help. The high pedal probably means the slave needs to be adjusted, or the friction plate is worn out. It also suggests to me that bleeding isn't likely to help.

The impossible shifting that got better on its own might be the friction plate stuck to the flywheel. Normally that's a malady found only after long storage, but the only time it has happened to me, the car only sat idle for a few weeks.

Went out to the garage this am after talking to Luciano in Miami. He came to no conclusion - nor did I. I then went into the garage, hooked up the battery (it goes dead if you keep it connected), started 'er up and guess what? Everything was fine. Like nothing had happened. Took it for a 5-mile ride, ran it up and down through the gears - man this thing loves to rev - and back into the garage. Ran fine. Go figure. Italian temperament I guess. Battery problem? Son claims battery is too small. No obvious short. Only thing running off the battery is a small clock with sweep second hand. Would that be enough to run down battery in about a week's time?

Well you know they say that talking about your problems is a start to repairing them.