Stop/Tail light wiring

I was stopped at the traffic lights the other day and a friend of mine pulled up along side and asked if my electrics were 6 or 12 volts I told him 12V and asked why, he said that the stop lights looked a bit dim.

I rewired the lights in 2013 and thought that I had it right but following his comments I am beginning to wonder if I have indeed wired the lights the right way around. The car is a BJ7 so we are on the early wiring system - the bulbs are 6/21. Which drives the 6 amp side and which should drive the 21 amp side. I think that I wired it up so that 21 amps supplied the side lights and the 6 amp supplied the stop/indicators.

Just checked on the car and swipe me - the brake lights are not working. It has happened before so I will have to check the system out, but the above question still applies.



Bob

Bob
i think the brake light pressure switches are known for getting weaker with use or not working. i put a new one in on my rebuild but if it has issues, i am just going to add an electric switch on the pedal. i saw where someone had mounted a piece of angle to the heater bulkhead and put a switch to the pedal. it releases and closes the circuit when the pedal is pushed.

a lot of people have also gone to LED lights in the reflectors to help people see more brake light.

i am not sure on the bulbs as to the 6/21 part. i would reverse one light's wiring at the pigtail. have someone push the brake pedal. see which light is brighter and go with that set up.

TL

I have an update.

The problem of the brake light not working lay in a poor connection at the flasher relay now resolved.

Drone Dog I don't think that the system works properly if the wires are crossed as you suggest. Don't ask me how I found that out!!

Looking at the intensities of light, I think that I have wired the brake and indicator to the 21 amp side of the bulb and the side lights are on the 6 amp side. Thinking about it logically it makes sense, as in the dark, the low intensity red light would show up and then would grow much brighter when the brakes or the indicator were operated.

I take the point about LEDs and I am in the throws of obtaining a complete LED stop / tale and indicator system for my car which is positive earth.



Bob

The 6/21 designation for the bulbs isn't amps, it's candlepower - 6 candles for taillights and 21 candles for brake/turn signals. If you want brighter, you can go to the (American) hot rod guys and get 50/14 bulbs. One source is here: https://www.bobdrake.com/FordItem.aspx?Item=81A-13465-HP12V.

Hi Bob,

Good Job finding the issue. A while back I installed LEDs only behind the reflectors as the LEDs available for 1157 bulb replacement were not that bright and, as you may know, LED brightness diminishes quite quickly as you move away from viewing them further away from direct forward of the light generator. I first installed bright incandescent bulbs behind the reflector lenses (small halogens I remember) but they melted the plastic lenses quit resting my foot on the brake at my first stop light. To address this heat issue, I installed LEDs, as they generate their heat at the socket end and not at the light end of the bulb. However, this LED change from incandescent bulbs behind the reflectors did loose quite a bit of light but was still better by having 4 rear lights rather then having only the 2 original small single tail. At this point in the development of LEDs, there may be one that will give sufficient light as brake/signal lights, however, if I ever replace my incandescent, it will not be for longevity as my original bulbs are still bright and operational.

I also installed an electric brake switch wired in parallel with the hydraulic pressure switch. If the pressure switch fails, the peddle-activated electric brake switch provides the necessary response to assure brake light activation

All the best,
Ray(64BJ8P1)

Hello Ray, Interesting post but I am curious about the electric switch setup you used in parallel with the hydraulic switch. I am aware of guys installing a switch inside the car over the brake pedal but that usually means removing the hydraulic switch from the circuit. Can you describe your approach. FYI, I am now on my third hydraulic brake switch on my BJ8 and I', getting tired of them failing. So might go to the inside electric switch mounted on heater duct but if there is a less invasive approach it would be worth pursuing.

Thanks

Jim

jman15 said:

Jim

Click to expand...

Jim, as the mod here I see that you've been a BCF member for almost three years and this is your first post. Welcome to being an active member. I hope you'll be a regular poster. As you have undoubtedly noticed by now, we have a very positive, very helpful forum here and I'm glad that you're part of it. Again, welcome.

Bob, incorrect wiring will result in the dim brake light and bright flasher as you suppose. Ask me how I know.

Hi Derek

By the sound of things I am wired up correctly, it was just the thought that occurred to me after the episode at the traffic lights, and of course the fault was at the relay - trouble is that it happens with regularity - at least once a year, whilst all the other terminals on the relay are tickety boo. When I installed the new harness all the contacts were cleaned up and given a coat of Vaseline perhaps I should include this in my annual maintenance. :highly_amused:



Bob

Hi! I recently installed LED's behind the reflectors in parallell with the indicator/brake light, and am about to install LED's also in the rear lights. Thanks to this forum I found a supplier of positive earth LED's,https://litezupp.com/epages/ac0e8cab...Products/L57RP. I have also sourced LED's for the front indicators with yellow light for the indicator and white for the parking light, ttp://www.dynamoregulatorconversion...units-shop.php as well as positive earth electronic flasher unit. No affiliation with either source.

Maybe it is different in the US, but in Europe these bulbs are measured in watts, not candela/candlepower. The 5/21 W should be used both in front and rear units on the BT/BJ7.

Novamonte

You are quite correct regarding the wattage - my grey matter was not working correctly when I first posted.

I too have found a source for positive light bulbs in the UK.



Bob

If its wired wrong the flasher will be crazily bright!

Hi Bob,

OK, I thought my English was sufficient to understand most threads posted from the UK but I stand corrected. What does "

Bob
Sorry for the confusion. i meant if you switched the wires at the pigtail you could tell if the side lights were brighter or the brake lights were. that would tell you if the wiring is correct. you obviously want the brake lights brighter. anyway if they worked right when you wired them, they had to be right now.

good catch finding your issue at the relay. maybe get some new star lock washers for the screws and put a dab of locktight on the threads.

RAC68 said:

Hi Bob,

Good Job finding the issue. A while back I installed LEDs only behind the reflectors as the LEDs available for 1157 bulb replacement were not that bright and, as you may know, LED brightness diminishes quite quickly as you move away from viewing them further away from direct forward of the light generator. I first installed bright incandescent bulbs behind the reflector lenses (small halogens I remember) but they melted the plastic lenses quit resting my foot on the brake at my first stop light. To address this heat issue, I installed LEDs, as they generate their heat at the socket end and not at the light end of the bulb. However, this LED change from incandescent bulbs behind the reflectors did loose quite a bit of light but was still better by having 4 rear lights rather then having only the 2 original small single tail. At this point in the development of LEDs, there may be one that will give sufficient light as brake/signal lights, however, if I ever replace my incandescent, it will not be for longevity as my original bulbs are still bright and operational.

I also installed an electric brake switch wired in parallel with the hydraulic pressure switch. If the pressure switch fails, the peddle-activated electric brake switch provides the necessary response to assure brake light activation

All the best,
Ray(64BJ8P1)

Click to expand...

Ray - your hydraulic switch may have already failed. How would you know?

Why not use the pedal switch only? They give superior response.

Hi Jim,

There is nothing more disconcerting on a Healey drive (in traffic) then having someone coming up and telling you you have no brake lights.

My installation was reasonably easy. My switch was sourced one day when roaming a NJ Salvage Yard (you could do that years ago … not today) and took a brake switch from a van (vans used a longer button and could be positioned easier). Installed on a homemade bracket anchored by 2 existing screws to the heater plenum, the switch's button rides on the edge of the brake peddle shaft. Because my BJ8 Phase 1 still uses the Flasher Relay Box (as previous models) to control the interaction of the single bulb directional/brake lights, wiring consisted of routing power to the switch through an added ling from the #4 terminal of the fuse box and the brake signal line is connected to the #5 terminal of the Flasher Relay Box (exactly as the original still is connected). New lines were squeezed through existing wiring paths to gain go from cockpit to engine bay components.

Since the BJ8 Phase 2 does not have the Flasher relay box, I would rout to lines to the original brake switch and would combine the 2 power lines into 1 new spade connector and also combine both signal wires to a second spade connector and replace on the original switch. By running in parallel, either switch could activate the brake lights. As with my installation, I would use existing wiring paths to gain line access to t he engine bay.

Hope this helps,
Ray(64BJ8P1)

Steve,

For all intent and purpose, by now the cockpit switch is the only one working. However, the original wiring is still in place and, in keeping with my objective to have all changes easily returned to Concorse (probably not in my lifetime), a parallel installation satisfies. However, a good pressure switch would only double the security of having a brake light signal.

Ray(64BJ8P1)

FWIW, I've been told by other motorists on several occasions that my brake lights "aren't working," only to pull over and check and find that no, they are working fine. I attribute this phenomenon to a couple things:

1) I don't 'jackrabbit' from stop light/sign to stop light/sign like 99% of drivers. If I see a light turn yellow or red 3 blocks ahead I use engine braking to slow, and often don't have to use brakes at all--my Mustang has 133K miles on the original brakes--but of course this irritates drivers behind me who often punch it and swoop around me, only to have to slam on their brakes at the light. I find it both amusing and depressing to watch drivers accelerate towards an intersection, only to have to slam on the brakes, while I often coast up behind them. Sometimes I think I should open a brake shop.

2) The brake lights on a Healey are small and low and not bright at all by today's standards, so I put red pos. grnd. 1157 LED bulbs in the rear (LED on left side only):



Note this is 'running' light only, brake circuit is of course brighter.

Nothing wrong with brake lights, and running lights are a necessity in low visibility, but an observant driver can tell if a car is changing its velocity without brake lights. You do this when behind a car that is slowing by coasting or using engine-braking only but, of course, many drivers tap their brakes without provocation all the time anyway. I have no problem with owners putting a third, center-mounted brake light on their cars, but keep in mind your car is completely invisible to cars behind the monster SUV that is riding your arse.

Ray

Tickety Boo - All is fine - correct. OK etc.



Bob