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BT-7 pinion seal replacement

  • Thread starter Deleted member 21878
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Deleted member 21878

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Decided to replace my pinion seal today. got tired of the oil on the floor.

i had read other threads on the procedure. i am going to go thru them just so when i get to my question, you will know what i did.

ok,
i marked the flanges so that i could mate them back up in the same position.
removed my 4 flange bolts and propped the driveshaft up out of the way.

i put one bolt back in the flange so i could use it to prop a pry bar against. then i pulled the e brake as tight as i could. i also marked my pinion nut for reference.

i got out my 24" breaker bar and got ready for the big fight. i was surprised the pinion nut came off a lot easier than i expected. it took some effort but i thought i would probably need another pipe on the end of the bar.

i took off the nut and the flange/cover slid off pretty easily. the old oil seal was put in even with the outer edge of the rear which is not what i read on this forum, but no big deal. i pryed out the old seal and prepared the new one to go in. i put a little ATV sealant on the outer edge to help it slide in. put some grease on the inner part of the seal. i wiped out where the seal slid in and it looked fine. so i tapped the seal in place. i saw the slight bevel there and put the seal in even with the inner part of the bevel.

before i put the flange back in i inspected the surface for grooves or other signs of wear. it looked fine but i polished it up with the 0000 steel wool. then wiped it down and put some oil on it. put it back in the same position and it slid back in smoothly. easier than i thought it would actually.

so i started the pinion nut back on. i put a bolt in the flange again and tightened up the pinion nut as far as i could with the 1/2" drive rachet. i checked the marks on my nut to be sure it was close to where it was before i took the nut off. all looked good. i set my wrench for 140 ft/lb, got my pry bar between the flange bolt and the frame. then tightened the bolt to torque. all seemed right. but it sure felt like it took a lot more force to get to 140 than it did for the nut to come off. in fact the e brake could not hold it. i needed the extra help of the pry bar.

next i was going to turn the rear so the flange mark was down to match where i had the u joint flange. but the rear would not turn. it was tight. i could not twist it by hand. i then grabbed both wheels and tried to rotate them. i could them backwards a little but not forwards. i moved them back a couple more times and rocked them and then the wheels would go forward as the pinion flange turned. i messed with it a few more rotations back and forth. each time it got easier to do. then the pinion flange seemed to move ok. i could turn it by hand. maybe not quite as easy as before . but each time i moved it to put in a flange bolt, it seemed to move easier and easier. So i figured i am ok.

but it does make me wonder. has someone else had the same thing happen? is that normal until it gets a few turns? i did not read anything like that in other posts. there are no other noises or anything like that in the rear when i rotate it now.

it is just that i had to crank quite hard on that torque wrench to get 140. i wondered if i maybe set the bearing too tight?

sorry if this got long. just figured i might save some questions.... or point to some...

Thoughts?

Thanks
 

gonzo

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Do you think the bearing pre-load was incorrect from the start and is now binding at correct torque? All steps described are correct, but that flange pinon nut should have taken more effort to remove. You could try measuring current pre-load and check it against spec.

Fortunately, the pumpkin could be removed if further investigation is needed. Rear-end parts are costly, bearings alone are $100+. Good luck, GONZO


You'll get it sorted
 
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yes i did release the brake but i wondered myself after writing. i must of because it did turn and turned without changing anything. i would not have been able to move the tires if i had not released the brake. hmmm, but i wonder if the e brake fully released right away. that would explain it. maybe i shifted the shoes with all the torque and had to work them back loose. or work the cylinders back where they could slide. i pulled that e brake up really tight and i did still turn it.

i know it has released now so maybe i will pull the drive shaft back off and see how easy everything feels then. if it stiil feels a little tight, i will back the pinion nut back off and try again.

i have got to put the car back in the air anyway. when i was checking the brakes my rear wheels were rocking on the splines. i am just going to go ahead and relpace them now before i mess up my wheels.
 

Bob_Spidell

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Note the Healey (Austin) diff's pinion pre-load is set with a spacer and shims*--kinda like the front wheel bearings--not with a crush-type spacer. Torquing the snot out of the flange nut shouldn't change the pre-load, unless the nut was pretty loose; it sounds like this might have been the case. Plus, a new seal might put up a bit more resistance (the pre-load is checked without the seal, just like the front wheel bearings).

Not 100% sure about the shims; might just be with different width spacers.
 
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don't get me wrong. i had to use the breaker bar to get it off. i just figured i would need more. plus i have the car on a lift so i can get some weight behind it. not like i am laying on my back under the car on jacks. i just figured it would be worse. and my mark on the nut did come back to the same place.

my thoughts on the e/brake are this. on my TR6, if i have the e brake on and then release it, there is some drag if i try to back up. you can feel the car does not roll as easily. as soon as i pull forward, i am guessing the cylinder shifts a little and they roll freely. it is really hard to even push the car backwards. but once it totally releases it rolls fine in either direction.

i am thinking maybe pulling the brake up real tight and then the torque of 140 lbs/ft, maybe locked the shoes or even one shoe against the drum? and i needed to rock the wheels a little to get them to pull back. guess i am saying my cylinders do not slide as easily as they should. that could explain it. not like i have that much power trying to turn them by hand.

i was adjusting the rear brakes today and they seemed to roll without issue. i don't remember when i tried to roll them after the install if i tried each wheel alone or not. i know i was working both wheels together as it started getting easier because i knew rotating both would turn the flange. if either of the wheels on their own was an issue, i would be sure it was the brakes. but i can't remember right if i tried that now. i was not even thinking about it at the time.

you could also be correct about the seal. as i said when i pulled the old one out, it was even with the outside of the front edge. i tapped the new one in even with the bevel. so it was probably in 1/32" or so vs the old one. that could have created some drag. maybe enough i needed the wheels/ratio to get it moving.

so i will pull the drive shaft back and see how the diff turns without the shaft. it should turn pretty freely. if not, i will pull the nut back off and see how that feels. then torque it back up.

thanks all, i will be back if i still feel i have an issue.
 
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just a follow up:

i pulled the pinion nut back off. by the way i was able to do with just the breaker bar. maybe a little harder than before but not much and i know the nut was torqued to 140 this time.

with the nut loose, i could spin the flange freely. so i tightened the nut as much as i could with just a 1/2" ratchet. then spun it again, still spun well. i should also say i backed the adjuster bolts on the brakes back off one notch.

then i torqued to 140 lbs and the flange stilled turn nice and free. in fact i could turn it by hand and let go and it would continue to turn a little.

Not sure what it was yesterday, maybe the new seal, maybe the brakes. but all seems good now... and it is not leaking... yet...

Thanks for the help and the suggestions. i am glad i went back and did this before i took any drives.
 

vette

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Bob Spidell is on the mark in discribing the situation. If your rear gears are original or have been redone in the original way then the pinion depth has been set by the use of a spacer and shims very similar to what you find in the adjustment of the front wheel bearings. With the shims and spacers in place when retighten the nut you would be putting the pinion gear in the same relationship to the ring gear that it was in before you started. Unless you changed the spacer and shims you could not change the set up. Now in newer cars as in most American cars there is used a crush sleeve instead of the shims and spacer. This crush sleeve is why it takes so much effort to tighten these things initally, you are literally crushing a steel sleeve. As for ease of turning the nut on or off, once you turn the nut off of its set against the washer there is no pressure to turn it. It will remove just like any other nut. Also when installing the nut it will turn on easily until it is up against the sleeve/shims or the crush washer. In a sleeve/shimed system you want to achieve the torque spec'd to lock the nut tight to the sleeve/shims. In a crush sleeve system you want to run the nut down snug against the crush sleeve and then torque to spec to get the proper preload on the pinion bearing. But recognize that the crush sleeve is already in its crushed state. You do not want to crush it anymore because this then will change the preload of the bearing. If you torque it more you will continue to crush the crush sleeve. The objective is to put enough crush on the crush sleeve to cause the bearing to be preloaded to a resistance to turn of about 3 to 7 or 8 inch lbs of pressure to make it rotate. Most "experienced" mechanics
will run the nut up till it makes contact with the crush sleeve (in effect that's where it was before you started) then tweek it just a tesch more to put some pressure on the bearing to make sure it is not a loose bearing. This though not a technically correct method has proven its utility for many, many years of garage type repairs. If the system is a spacer and shims method as the Healeys were originally set up with, then just put it together and torque it to spec. .......one thing could have happened to make your set up lock up. On some pinion shafts there is a step machinged into the shaft about where the bearing is. If you allowed the pinion shaft to move in some what when you have the nut, flange and seal off, the pinion shaft could have gotten hung up on the step against the race of the bearing. This would not be good but if upon wiggling things alittle and getting things back into alignment and then all tightened up and it turns free and smooth you should be alright. Good Luck with it.
 
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