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Thread: Letís talk motor oils

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    Obi Wan Patrick67BJ8's Avatar
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    Letís talk motor oils

    I read the article about oils & zip in the latest Austin Healey Magazine and now Iím a little confused(it doesnít take much to confuse me) and I google Mobil 1 and Valvoline racing oil for street/track.

    i had my camshaft regrouped by Elgin in 2012 andDema sentme a Mobil oil spec sheet with Mobil 1 15w-50 circled. ((I will scan and post later). It shows Phosphorus level at 1200 and Zinc at 1300.
    tge sheet is dated 5/27/2010. i am posting Mobil and Valvoline spec sheets.
    thoughts on oil today that we can buy?
    Patrick
    '67 Metallic Golden Beige/Red
    Owned since '72

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    Obi Wan Patrick67BJ8's Avatar
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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick67BJ8 View Post
    I read the article about oils & zip in the latest Austin Healey Magazine and now Iím a little confused(it doesnít take much to confuse me) and I google Mobil 1 and Valvoline racing oil for street/track.

    i had my camshaft regrouped by Elgin in 2012 andDema sentme a Mobil oil spec sheet with Mobil 1 15w-50 circled. ((I will scan and post later). It shows Phosphorus level at 1200 and Zinc at 1300.
    tge sheet is dated 5/27/2010. i am posting Mobil and Valvoline spec sheets.
    thoughts on oil today that we can buy?
    More info.
    Patrick
    '67 Metallic Golden Beige/Red
    Owned since '72

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    Jedi Hopeful
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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    You may want to read the info at 540ratblog.wordpress.com
    Mobil 1 0W40 is among his highest rated (5), in the 'Fantastic' category. 1000 ppm zinc.
    Valvoline VR1 10W30 (41) is rated 'Outstanding'. 1472 ppm zinc.
    Castrol GTX 20W50 (63) is also rated 'Outstanding'. 610 ppm Zinc.
    Last edited by dcarlg; 04-27-2018 at 02:48 PM. Reason: Added zinc content.

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    Great Pumpkin Keoke's Avatar
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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    Been using single viscosity VR1 since day one no problems
    Last edited by Keoke; 04-27-2018 at 03:03 AM.
    1966 Daimler V8 Saloon; Safely Fast, Built to Last & and; Smooth as Glass.
    1966 BJ8 [ 2 ] Lil Red & Miss bLU
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    Yoda
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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    I've noticed the Valvoline data sometimes contradicts itself; sometimes saying it's OK for 'conventional'--presumably, street--use and other times implying it's for racing only. FWIW, I put over 5K miles on VR1 20W-50 and had it analyzed. My builder recommended it, and I'd added a bottle of GM EOS, again with approval of the builder.

    Oil_Analysis-08_18_17-page-001.jpg

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    Darth Vader steveg's Avatar
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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    Bob - Can you interpret the data for us: is that a really good report?

    Other than the first 500 miles on Joe Gibbs 15w-50 Break-in oil, I've got 3000+ miles on VR-1 20w-50 since my rebuild last summer.
    Steve Gerow
    Altadena, CA, USA
    Maker of most complete Big Healey rear disc kit
    Check out my galleries:
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    Yoda
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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    These are their comments (they seem to think the engine was new, I think there was some miscommunication):

    "BOB: This is more sodium than we usually see out of Valvoline VR1 oil, but it's actually pretty common for
    the oil from the factory to look a little different from the same oil you'd get off the shelf. Sodium is normal,
    and so is silicon: it's from sealers and sand-casted parts used at assembly, and that will wash out with time.
    Usually new engines have more metal in the oil than this, from new parts wearing in, but your metals really
    look quite good at this point. You'll probably find a bit less iron, copper and lead next time. The TBN is very
    strong. Try 7,500 miles next time."

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    Jedi Knight DerekJ's Avatar
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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    A discussion on oil! That's a new one

    I studied this to death about two years ago and came to the conclusion that modern synthetic oils are definitely better than mineral oils even in older vehicles. I settled on Mobil 1 10W-60 Motorsport Formula which also has high ZDDP levels. The 10W also helps with easier starting.

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    Obi Wan Patrick67BJ8's Avatar
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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    Quote Originally Posted by steveg View Post
    Bob - Can you interpret the data for us: is that a really good report?

    Other than the first 500 miles on Joe Gibbs 15w-50 Break-in oil, I've got 3000+ miles on VR-1 20w-50 since my rebuild last summer.
    I did excactly the same thing you did for my new engine, but after reading that newsletter story I became concerned.
    Patrick
    '67 Metallic Golden Beige/Red
    Owned since '72

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    Obi Wan Patrick67BJ8's Avatar
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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    Quote Originally Posted by dcarlg View Post
    You may want to read the info at 540ratblog.wordpress.com
    Mobil 1 0W40 is among his highest rated (5).
    Mobil 1 15W50 is rated much lower (175).
    Do you have a link for Wordpress story?
    Patrick
    '67 Metallic Golden Beige/Red
    Owned since '72

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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/
    Originally, I found it in a post dated 6-26-2016 "racing oil and zinc", by Steveg.
    It is very interesting and useful.

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    Obi Wan Patrick67BJ8's Avatar
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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    This is the "sheet" for Oil info I was given by Elgin Cams in 2012 when they did my BJ8 Camshaft and Lifters.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Patrick
    '67 Metallic Golden Beige/Red
    Owned since '72

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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    It's nice to find objective data and useful comparisons to base important decisions on.
    540ratblog rated Valvoline VR1 very high, but he only tested 10W30 conventional (silver bottle). Castrol 20W50 GTX did well, too.
    All of the "break-in" oils rated poorly. I will avoid them.
    I filled my rebuilt BJ8 motor with Mobil 1 0W40 FS European Car Formula.

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    Yoda HealeyRick's Avatar
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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    Just to add some more grist to the mill. One of our Austin-Healey Club of New England members contacted Valvoline directly after reading the Austin-Healey Magazine article and received this reply:

    "Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oil 20W-50 was recently relabeled with the API SN service category in order to remain compliant for sale in the state of California. The formulation of this product did not change as a result, and it still contains the same 1,400 ppm zinc that it did in the past. We have attached a copy of our product information sheet which reflects this information. "



    Rick

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    Yoda
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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    Quote Originally Posted by HealeyRick View Post
    ... "Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oil 20W-50 was recently relabeled with the API SN service category in order to remain compliant for sale in the state of California. The formulation of this product did not change as a result, and it still contains the same 1,400 ppm zinc that it did in the past. We have attached a copy of our product information sheet which reflects this information. "
    Likely the reason it seemed to disappear from parts store shelves for a while here in California. My local store said they yanked it off the shelves, but the counter guy didn't know why.

    In the Austin Healey Magazine article--I'm still packed-up from a move and don't have it handy--the author misspelled diesel--as 'diesle,' IIRC--not once, but twice. That lessened his credibility, IMO (call me A-R, but you ought to know how to spell what you're lecturing about, esp. with spelling correction in most text processors). He also happens to sell the oil he recommends--a 'classic' oil--without mentioning other classic oils--from Hemmings, Penrite and others--which are likely just as good (and possibly made in the same lab/refinery, like gas sans additives).

    I AM a bit concerned that excess zinc and phosphorous could be corrosive. I may have overdone it adding EOS to the first couple of changes, and the break-in oils typically have something like 4,000 PPM so I wouldn't want to run it for long.

    Oh, and 540rat's conclusions are hotly disputed on the interwebs.

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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    Oh, and 540rat's conclusions are hotly disputed on the interwebs.[/QUOTE]

    Well, I don't really have a horse in this race, but generally, I value facts and data over opinions and anecdotes.
    A few typos can be tolerated when someone is sharing his hobby with the internet universe.
    Since I'm becoming more of a belt and suspenders guy, I looked at both zinc content (ppm) and resistance to pressure (psi) before selecting an oil.
    I'm not an engineer, so I really don't understand how break-in oil allows piston rings to bed in, but prevents cam and lifter wear.
    Maybe we need the myth busters here.

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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    Reference article, for now:

    Castrol CLASSIC ENGINE OILS
    WHY USE CLASSIC OILS ?

    The Land Rover Rover-V8 (Buick 215) community leans towards Rotella T. The engine is a relatively old flat tappet design.

    As always the issue is the moving target of oil specs.

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    Obi Wan Patrick67BJ8's Avatar
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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    If the 20w-50 VR1 racing oil , “non synthetic” hasn’t changed would the Mobil 15w-50 synthetic be better?
    Patrick
    '67 Metallic Golden Beige/Red
    Owned since '72

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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    Well, I don't pretend to be an expert. Just trying to make good evidence-based decisions.
    Mobil 1 15W50 has 1133 ppm zinc, but is rated merely 'Good' (#175) by 540ratblog's tests. There seem to be better choices.
    Valvoline VR1 20W50 conventional has 1400 ppm zinc, but seems not to have been tested by 540ratblog.
    Valvoline VR1 10W30 rated 'Outstanding' (#41) and has 1472 ppm zinc.
    Hard to make assumptions.
    He occasionally accepts oil to test.

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    Yoda
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    Re: Letís talk motor oils

    Quote Originally Posted by dcarlg View Post
    Oh, and 540rat's conclusions are hotly disputed on the interwebs.
    ...A few typos can be tolerated when someone is sharing his hobby with the internet universe.
    I was referring to the article in Austin Healey Magazine, to wit:

    "In the Austin Healey Magazine article--I'm still packed-up from a move and don't have it handy--the author misspelled diesel--as 'diesle,' IIRC--not once, but twice."

    Sorry if this wasn't clear enough. This fellow wrote something which, to all appearances, was a definitive screed on the suitability of contemporary motor oils for use in our Healeys, while plugging an oil he happens to sell (if he'd mentioned the other 'classic' oils available I would have been OK with that). I'm a born skeptic, so if someone is trying to preach to me I do note any mistakes, inaccuracies and, yes, misspellings which generally adds to my skepticism of their sermon. We all fat-finger a spelling now and then, but twice in the same article is a pattern. And, for what it's worth, he also declared Rotella as unsuitable for Healeys.

    As far as 540rat's research, I personally find it useful and slightly above anecdotal but not definitive. I remember (barely) an article I read in Light Plane Maintenance many years ago where they scrutinized various oils--synthetic, semi-synthetic and mineral--using industry-accepted tests for wear, corrosion resistance, etc. and provided data and photographs to substantiate their conclusions. I accepted that due to the diligence they obviously applied to their research (and also to the fact that that magazine did not accept advertising nor did they generally endorse specific products). I also trust my engine builder, as they've been at it for a while, and experience counts in my book.

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