Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: Loosen engine

Discussions of Triumph motor cars

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Clermont, FL
    Posts
    88
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Loosen engine

    I have recently purchased a 1954 TR-2 long door, that has been sitting in a garage for 30 years.It actually has little or no rust. I pulled the plugs and poured some Marvel Mystery Oil into the cylinders. I would like to turn the engine over, but do not have a crank. I do not want to try it with the starter, at this early stage. The engine has had oil up to the mark, and it doesn't look that bad. Before I pull the pan and change to oil and filter I would like to try and turn the engine several times.

    Any suggestions?

  2. #2
    Jedi Knight
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    redding,ca
    Posts
    905
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    With the spark plugs removed and of course the transmission in neutral you may be able to put a socket on the bolt on the front of the generator and turn the engine doing that. The belt may slip some and you may need to push down on the belt to prevent that.
    An alternate way is to again remove the spark plugs, put the transmission in 4th gear, lift one rear wheel off the ground and turn that wheel. This way may provide you with more leverage.
    Charley
    1962 TR4
    1963 TR4
    1959 TR3A A work in progress.

  3. #3
    Jedi Knight
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Strafford, NH
    Posts
    1,452
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    First, congratulations on your new car. Sounds like a real winner; lucky you, I'm a bit jealous.
    I think the bolt that holds the front hub on, and accepts the crank handle, has a hex too, so you can put a socket on it. In my experience, if it is at all stuck, you'll be looking at a teardown soon, even if you get it to run. But you have apparently been lucky already so who knows.
    Keep us posted and maybe a picture.
    Tom
    1960 TR3A TS73117 (under restoration year 6, owned since 1964)
    1959 TR3A TS58023 (in case I never finish the one above)
    1969 Triumph Herald 13/60 (a whim)
    1973 Buick Apollo (was Dad's car)
    1992 BMW325IC (fun to drive)

  4. #4
    Yoda Geo Hahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Mt Lemmon, Arizona
    Posts
    9,205
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6
    Thanked in
    6 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    Or... with the plugs out and with gloves on you may be able to turn the engine by just grabbing the fan, though raising the LR corner, engine in 4th and working the tire is the easiest way.

  5. #5
    Great Pumpkin TR3driver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Sunny So California
    Posts
    18,222
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12
    Thanked in
    11 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    Just grab the fan and turn it.

    Another alternative, if the wheels are on, put it in 4th gear and push it.

    Personally, I didn't see any point in worrying about it. When I woke my 56 from it's 30+ year nap; I figured that either the engine was OK, or it wasn't. If it was OK then spinning with the starter (with the plugs out and fresh oil in the crankcase) wasn't going to hurt anything. And if the engine wasn't OK, cranking it wouldn't damage it any worse than it already was.
    Randall
    56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
    71 Stag LE1473L waiting engine rebuild
    71-72-73 Stag LE2013LBW waiting OD gearbox rebuild

  6. #6
    Jedi Knight Brinkerhoff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Traverse City MI. USA
    Posts
    1,148
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    They're pretty tough and will take rocking back and forth until something breaks then it should have been taken apart anyhow. I just had the pleasure of reviving a 59 TR3 that had been sitting that long and it came back to life pretty quickly after a valve adjustment , carb seals , plugs and an old Lucas Sports Coil. I ran it up at temperature for 30 minutes before I changed the oil . I think it probably appreciated the love !

  7. #7
    Yoda CJD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Southlake, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,658
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    30 years in Florida...it’ll be hit or miss on whether the rings are locked to the cylinders. If it were in Arizona I’d give it a much better chance of freeing up. Best of luck with it...let us know how it goes!
    John

    1955 TR2

  8. #8
    Darth Vader
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    washington state
    Posts
    2,662
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    I think it matters on how you unfreeze. I would not want it to start and break something like a crank. I would pull the plugs and get a few gallons of inexpensive oil and fill the entire engine with oil until the oil runs out the spark plug holes. That will not hurt anything, just try and keep it off the valves by pulling the plugs. That way everything is soaked in oil, the timing chain, rings, rods, pistons…ect. Let that sit for a few days and then try and turn by hand or rock in 4 gear. Once the engine moves, then drain those gallons of oil out, put the correct amount of oil in with a new filter and try and start it.
    steve

  9. #9
    Yoda glemon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Nebraska, USA
    Posts
    3,111
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    Quote Originally Posted by sp53 View Post
    I think it matters on how you unfreeze. I would not want it to start and break something like a crank. I would pull the plugs and get a few gallons of inexpensive oil and fill the entire engine with oil until the oil runs out the spark plug holes. That will not hurt anything, just try and keep it off the valves by pulling the plugs. That way everything is soaked in oil, the timing chain, rings, rods, pistons…ect. Let that sit for a few days and then try and turn by hand or rock in 4 gear. Once the engine moves, then drain those gallons of oil out, put the correct amount of oil in with a new filter and try and start it.
    steve
    And be prepared for a lot of smoke! (Which you would likely get if you filled it with oil or not after sitting that long). I will also second the motion that TR 4 cylinders are robust motors, and like to run if you give them half a chance.

  10. #10
    Darth Vader Marvin Gruber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Florence, Al
    Posts
    2,988
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    Grab the fan and see it if will turn by hand, if it does, put a little MM oil in cylinders and motor over. If not, then put more oil in cylinders and do the above recomendations. Who knows you might get lucky. Its 50/50 at best. Just an engine, they are rebuilt everyday.
    Marv

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Central California
    Posts
    84
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    If the engine is stuck (or nearly so) one approach that dates from the twenties (or before) is to remove the starter motor and lever on the teeth of the ring gear with a very large screwdriver or other similar tool. Using the opening in the engine block casting as a fulcrum point, you should have enough to move the engine a little bit at a time. The trick is to work the engine back and forth in opposite rotational directions, while gradually increasing the amount you turn the engine each time. Ring gear teeth are usually sturdy enough to take this method without damage.

    This assumes that you've already pulled the spark plugs, put in lots of oil or penetrating agent (liquid wrench, kroil, marvel mystery oil, atf, etc.) and let the engine sit for a while. Pull the valve cover and fully oil the valve gear as well. Grabbing the fan or putting a wrench on the crankshaft pulley bolt should be tried first (but still after soaking), because they're good first tests and easier than levering through the starter hole. Hand cranks work well also.

    Keep moving and oiling the engine through the plug holes as you go to fully free-up the engine before you start it. Make sure that all valves and rocker arms are moving correctly. As others have said, be prepared for a lot of smoke when the motor first starts - both from the lubricant you've put in and from stuck piston rings.

  12. #12
    Jedi Warrior
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hudson, OH
    Posts
    575
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    I think everyone is overthinking this. If it's frozen it's most likely the rings. Put some light oil in through the plug openings and let it sit for a week. Put enough in that it will soak down around the rings. With the plugs out put it in 4th gear and try rocking the car. If it moves great, if not let it soak a while longer and try again. Once it moves if it does, then pour some oil down the push rod openings to get some oil to the cam. You can pull the distributer and with a rod ground to a screw driver point spin the oil pump and get oil flowing to the rocker arm assembly, that will get oil to the crank as well. Once that's done spin the engine with the starter, blow out the oil from the cylinders, replace the plugs and with some fresh fuel try to start it.
    I'd never fill the engine full with oil, that's wasteful, messy and makes very little sense. You might also cause hydro-lock which would not be good.
    So I've added my 2 cents worth, but it's a simple exercise.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Clermont, FL
    Posts
    88
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    Thanks Guys,

    Think I will try a socket on the front bolt, as have no crank. I am still trying to get the left rear brake drum off, anybody have a good suggestion? Couldn't find a puller large enough to hook it up. Have beat with sledge hammer agains't a oak block. Nothing!

    Dick

  14. #14
    Jedi Knight TRMark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Billings, MT
    Posts
    1,214
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: Loosen engine

    Did you back off the brake adjuster?
    ex spec5 Mark

  15. #15
    Great Pumpkin TR3driver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Sunny So California
    Posts
    18,222
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12
    Thanked in
    11 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    Puller just makes things worse, the shoes spread apart when pulled out against the spring.

    As noted, make sure the adjuster is backed off (square head on backing plate, roughly opposite from where hydraulic line attaches). An 8 point socket or one of the special square wrenches is a good idea; they round easily with just an open end wrench.

    If it still won't come off, I'd go back to the BFH, but skip the wood. Hit the drum on the cylindrical portion, as though you were hitting the friction surface of the shoes. Start with medium blows all around, then if that doesn't do it, try again with all you've got. At some point, you'll have to break the drum anyway; but in my experience they are hard to break that way and you can usually drive the shoes and pistons in far enough to get the drum off.
    Obviously, you have to avoid hitting an edge, though. Just the part shaped like a barrel.

  16. #16
    Yoda CJD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Southlake, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,658
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    Cool thing about the long door brakes is you can undo the slave cylinders from the back of the backing plate. Once they're loose, then the shoes should fall free.

    To others not familiar with the lockheed brakes...the adjustment is from a hole in the outside of the drum (wheel side). If you can't turn the drum to align the hole with the 2 adjusters...then you cannot loosen the adjuster!
    John

    1955 TR2

  17. #17
    Great Pumpkin TR3driver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Sunny So California
    Posts
    18,222
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12
    Thanked in
    11 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    Oops, sorry, I forgot this is an early car with Lockheed (front drum) brakes. My bad.

    Yet another reason to put your car details in your signature; so old farts like me don't forget and pass out bad information
    Randall
    56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
    71 Stag LE1473L waiting engine rebuild
    71-72-73 Stag LE2013LBW waiting OD gearbox rebuild

  18. #18
    Jedi Knight Bob Claffie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Dalton Mass
    Posts
    893
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    The problem with backing off the brake adjusters is that when you try to loosen the shoes the first motion of the adjuster is to tighten the shoe due to the shape of the end of the adjuster. If they are frozen or near to frozen that will make them even tighter. Even if you were able to remove the adjuster completely you would still have the small "pins" stuck in the bore of the wheel cylinder.
    Thank goodness the MG is finally gone, replaced by another Corvette

  19. #19
    Jedi Knight TRMark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Billings, MT
    Posts
    1,214
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: Loosen engine

    Ah, my mistrake. Thought it was like my TR4. Sorry. Lotsa bad advice on the internet, I just contributed.
    ex spec5 Mark

  20. #20
    Yoda CJD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Southlake, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,658
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Re: Loosen engine

    Like I said, the cool thing is that the cylinders hold the shoes. The bolts holding the cylinders go through the backplate from the back side, so you can (theoretically) remove the mounting bolts and, even if the adjusters are frozen to the cylinders, the shoes, cylinders, and drum should come off as an assembly. Of course the brake hydraulic lines have to be removed first.
    John

    1955 TR2

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •