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Thread: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

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    overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    TR3 with TR4 gearbox and overdrive.
    I know this has been discussed at length, but I am still puzzled how to get the speedometer cable past the frame. Either I can go under it, a bit exposed, or I can go through the same hole as the rear brake line, and worry about chafing ( though I thought I would try to immobilize the two things with silicone). I know the second method has been used by some of you: maybe it is the only way.

    I stretched the holes at the rear mount, and the unit seems to sit square on the front mounts so i thought all was well. But when I added the crosspiece that supports the front panel the hood latch is (just) rubbing against the top hose. Goes this mean that I have to grind off a bit more at the back, even though the front mounts seem OK. Or could it be that the top cross member is out of whack: I have not had the chance to put on the hood/bonnet to see if the latch is out of place.
    I will try for a photograph today. still lots to do!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Dr_Mike; 03-18-2018 at 07:59 PM. Reason: add photo

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    Yoda TR4nut's Avatar
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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    I just routed the same cable on my 4 - Not sure it is correct but I went through the same grommet as the brake line. Not much if any movement there so I don’t think chafing will be a concern on the brake line.
    Randy
    70 TR6 - running
    59 TR3A - slumbering
    64 TR4 - got another one!

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    Thank you. It seem logical!

    The other issue may well be due to crooked mounts for the crosspiece. Piggots book shows half an inch of clearance for the hose and there is no way that another eighth inch of grinding away the rear holes is going to give me that: so i shall fit the front apron (or the rather heavier hood) and see if that will push it into place.

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    If you jack dead center under the front crossmember the frame will spread to fit the brace with room to spare. Is there another problem going on, though?
    John

    1955 TR2

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    I have confused the issue!. I think you are referring to the tubular cross member with three bolts at each and. Wish I had known that jack trick when I fitted it.
    My problem seems to be with the aluminum crosspiece which supports the apron and the closer mechanism and which is bolted to the top of the inner wings on the body shell. Although the body was reassembled meticulously there was a different crosspiece used and the aluminum one may not sit quite the same. Anyway that is what i am hoping today, and I can measure from the hinge bolts on the body and the bonnet and see if they are the same. Does that confuse even more? Off today to do just that,(measure, not confuse) and praying that all I have to do is readjust the crosspiece

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    Good luck. If you can post a picture or two we might be able to see if anything looks out of whack. I’m skeptical that the transmission mount is the problem, particularly since you could use the front engine mounts.
    Randy
    70 TR6 - running
    59 TR3A - slumbering
    64 TR4 - got another one!

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    l. The base pieces on the fenders are welded on. I would think that you could see evidence of any old welded position if they have been moved. You do have the cross piece located in between the two raised parts of the base pieces?
    Out of curiosity --how much distance is there between the rear of the engine and the firewall? On my cars there is not much, just enough for the accelerator cross linkage plus maybe an inch. I would also think that the fan blades would be very close to the radiator if the engine is very far forward.
    Last edited by charleyf; 03-19-2018 at 10:17 PM.
    Charley
    1962 TR4
    1963 TR4
    1959 TR3A A work in progress.

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    the only solid measurement I could get was between the back of the head and the bulkhead/firewall. that was 4 cm.; a bit less if you measure from the edge of the valve cover. How does tart compare?

    no evidence that the mountings for the crosspiece have been moved: bent, twisted and abused, but not moved.
    I really cannot judge the position of the crosspiece until I fit the apron. It is canted slightly forward at the moment which brings the striker and spring backward into contact with hose. I am going into a "wait and see" mode for now, but I have a couple of photos to share
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    Ah...that makes more sense...and that is a new one. Both my cars cleared the bypass hose by almost an inch. It would almost have to be the front mounts causing the lack of clearance??
    John

    1955 TR2

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    As I recall, the front mounts come with metal shims to adjust the engine height. Do you have too many shims?
    Chuck

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    No shims, as handcrank/starting handle goes neatly into place through the radiator.
    I suppose one solution would be to shim up the body but it seems a bit late in the process to do that. Another is to move the engine back, or twitch the crosspiece. Can anyone measure the space between their head and the firewall to give me an idea of what that should be?

    AS an aside I am regretting the decision to use a different frame. The original had been well straightened except for one front turret which needed be replaced. As it turned out it would have been cheaper and quicker to get a new turret from UK to replace the damaged one. The replacement frame seemed straight and the body sat on it quite neatly until this came up! I am paying through the nose for my covered space and I do not want to prolong the process by back tracking. But...


    PS I have a nice straight frame which needs a new turret if any one is interested!

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    Mike,
    I am wondering if your problem may be that your engine is to "high" as opposed to to far forward. Could you have a TR4 front engine plate on your engine? A TR4 front engine plate will move the engine higher in the car by about what you are experiencing. I have heard that one can not mount such an engine plate on a TR3 frame. But I suspect that may not be true. It will mount but not everything fits correctly. I checked the two engine plates to see for myself the difference in how they fit.
    Charley
    1962 TR4
    1963 TR4
    1959 TR3A A work in progress.

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    There's a thought!

    Can you describe the difference?. I am not sure about it being too high given that the crank lines up with the radiator but I am definitely in new territory. Well, i guess I am way out of my comfort zone!

    Again, a measurement of your (car's) head to the bulkhead would be helpful.. Mine is 4 cm and it is the only firm measurement I can get for fore and aft position.

    Michael
    1964 Morris Minor convertible , our summer driver
    1960 TR3A, a very long term project
    ex 1933 Standard 6 cylinder touring Europe in 1954!
    etc.

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    Before you come to any conclusions and impose drastic measures, it's about time to fit the bonnet and see how it fits into the opening between the scuttle and apron. The problem could just be that your apron is to far aft, which would also shorten the opening for the bonnet.

    If the bonnet fits well into the opening, then perhaps attempting loosen all the body bolts and bump the entire body forward a half inch.

    In response to the possibility of the engine maybe being high...both my TR3A and TR2 would clear the bypass hose to spring even if the engine were 3 inches higher. They have for and aft clearance.

    TR3A:



    TR2:

    John

    1955 TR2

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Mike View Post
    the only solid measurement I could get was between the back of the head and the bulkhead/firewall. that was 4 cm.; a bit less if you measure from the edge of the valve cover. How does tart compare?

    no evidence that the mountings for the crosspiece have been moved: bent, twisted and abused, but not moved.
    I really cannot judge the position of the crosspiece until I fit the apron. It is canted slightly forward at the moment which brings the striker and spring backward into contact with hose. I am going into a "wait and see" mode for now, but I have a couple of photos to share
    When I look at pic #3 in this post, it looks like your apron bow mounting tabs have been bent rearward...possibly accounting for the missing clearance. There is room to bend the mounts forward, or at least "straight".
    John

    1955 TR2

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Mike View Post
    There's a thought!

    Can you describe the difference?. I am not sure about it being too high given that the crank lines up with the radiator but I am definitely in new territory. Well, i guess I am way out of my comfort zone!

    Again, a measurement of your (car's) head to the bulkhead would be helpful.. Mine is 4 cm and it is the only firm measurement I can get for fore and aft position.

    Michael
    1964 Morris Minor convertible , our summer driver
    1960 TR3A, a very long term project
    ex 1933 Standard 6 cylinder touring Europe in 1954!
    etc.
    Mike,I am no help on the present fit as the engine is not in the car. It looks like John has some good pictures to use for comparison.
    Charley
    1962 TR4
    1963 TR4
    1959 TR3A A work in progress.

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train



    sorry about the word spacing, I could not fix it


    Now that is Art John, and I was thinking the tabs could also move forward also. If you do put the cross piece on the apron after you straighten the holders, I found temporally leaving the row of attaching bolts along the cross piece and apron loose, lets the apron have some wiggle room up and down for the fenders and hood clearance until you get a good idea of how everything will line up. The hood is usually tight and the vent lid can be tight also.


    There is about a clearance on mine between the hood spring and hose. I think a different hose will give you more room also. That hose is too perfect and too much of a 90 at the spring; the hose could come back more and the cross brace go forward some and then I think you will be good. Again the hood is usually tight so going down some might be what you want any. So fit the hood, apron and vent to give you the correct clearances.

    The reason my car has a red hood rod is because I have been working on getting some of the body noises out from under the hood. That red hood rod is original, and I found the bent tip to be a shorter than the aftermarket ones. Now when the rod is in the holder and hood closed that tip does not hit the hood and rattle. I just need to paint it.


    John are those plug wires metal core? If so, where did you get them?

    John one thing; those bolts on the battery holder J hooks should be brass wing nuts. Just thought you would like to know.
    Peace out Steve

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    John:
    It looks as though my engine is more forward than any one else's though there is (by now) a lot of variability. I will take your advice and fit the bonnet, and perhaps the apron too, before doing anything drastic.

    If any passerby has an actual measurement behind the engine could you let me have it. It would be interesting, at least to me!

    I looked at an alternate bypass hose ( from Moss) and it lied as though it would be worse. I don't know the source of the on in the picture, but I did lop off half an inch at the top.

    I had hoped to start the engine this weekend, but I think i will call a time out to make sure things do fit.


    Michael

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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    I would think if you motor mounts are lined up engine andframe that part would be fixed. I measured and I have an inch and 1/8 ---itdoes sound like you modified something for the different trans. But maybe trythe rest of the body parts and see what you get. Just a bolt here and there.


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    Re: overdrive cable routing: and mounting the drive train

    Just wondering, Mike, is the bonnet spring straight or is there a chance it is bent rearward? I'm betting the problem is accumulation of little clearance variances due to our hand made cars.

    Thanks Steve, now I have a reason to get back on ebay...wing nuts!! I think you are enabling me.
    John

    1955 TR2

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