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Thread: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

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    "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    Hi, I'm trying to figure where I can get a list years of engine numbers to see if numbers match. Right now I am looking at a 1956 small mouth, with an engine number of TS10516E, looks like that may fall into the range for that car which is TS10175 L. Thank you for any help.

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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    Those numbers (engine number slightly higher than commission number) are very typical and the difference (engine 341 greater) sounds very likely to be correct/original.

    But 'very likely' is the best you're going to get short of ordering a build certificate for the car: https://www.britishmotormuseum.co.uk...e-certificates

    The issue is that engines were not necessarily used in numerical order so the difference in numbers varied. The spread itself occured because Triumph sold some engines outright and also sold engines to Morgan for use in their cars - both adding to the difference in the numbers.

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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    Quote Originally Posted by Geo Hahn View Post
    Those numbers (engine number slightly higher than commission number) are very typical and the difference (engine 341 greater) sounds very likely to be correct/original.

    But 'very likely' is the best you're going to get short of ordering a build certificate for the car: https://www.britishmotormuseum.co.uk...e-certificates

    The issue is that engines were not necessarily used in numerical order so the difference in numbers varied. The spread itself occured because Triumph sold some engines outright and also sold engines to Morgan for use in their cars - both adding to the difference in the numbers.
    Thanks, this car appears to be very original, so the engine is probably too. Thanks for the quick response!

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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    FWIW, TS13571L originally had (and still does) TS13986E
    Randall
    56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
    71 Stag LE1473L waiting engine rebuild
    71 Stag LE2013LBW waiting gearbox rebuild

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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    Thanks, how about a 1960 TR3 TS54596LO with Engine #TS 52216E? And where can I locate a list of these numbers?
    Thanks!

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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    There is no list that I know of.

    But there are registries and such that show the commission numbers and engine numbers for some of the cars. These can at least show you what some near-by cars had in the way of number combinations.

    Here's one: http://www.trregistry.com/start/registry/html/

    Of course not all entries show engine numbers, some entries may have had their engines replaced and even with the accurate numbers the spread between the two numbers will vary quite a bit because engines were not used in strict numerical order.

    For example - here is a nearby entry that shows a comparable spread to the numbers you mention:

    http://www.trregistry.com/start/TR3/...?vin=TS54270LO

    Also note that is a '1959' whereas the one you ask about was a '1960'. Model year didn't mean much back then and was typically the year the car was first registered - irrespective of when it was built. Many TR3As (esp in the year 59 & 60) carried over to the following year before they were sold & registered.

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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    Thank you very much. So I understand the LO means overdrive. Where would the OD switch be located? Yes, I am new on these early TRs. I've owned one Spitfire and three TR6's but all the switches would have been located on the shift knob, I'm not sure with this car.

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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    The 'L' is for left-hand drive (steering wheel on the left), only the 'O' indicates factory overdrive. The OD switch should be to the left of the steering wheel, with a rather large tear-drop shaped body and a smallish toggle sticking out the front of it. You can kind of see one in this shot


    However, a lot of things can happen in 58 years. You may find the switch missing, or even the entire overdrive.
    Randall
    56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
    71 Stag LE1473L waiting engine rebuild
    71 Stag LE2013LBW waiting gearbox rebuild

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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    Is there a way to have the OD automatically engage?

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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    Can certainly be done, but not simple. To get somewhere close to right (like an automatic transmission) would probably require a microprocessor with information on throttle position, manifold vacuum, rpm, etc.

    You can buy logic devices that will, for example, automatically disengage OD when you change gears, but that doesn't seem useful to me. I often just leave the switch on when I'm just puttering around town, so it only takes 3 shifts to get into top gear.

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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    Thank you sir, this gent says the set it up so that it automatically engages, so maybe he bypassed the switch, kind of like leaving the switch on?

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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    The other issue with that is how the system (whatever it is) would know when you wanted OD. Overdrive isn't just for high speed driving, it also provides useful gearing such as 3rd gear OD which often ideal for twisty mountain roads.

    In varying city traffic (e.g. freeway slow-n-go) you may want to switch back and forth between 3rd to 3rd OD in lieu of the 3-4 shifts in a standard gearbox.

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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    Quote Originally Posted by Moosca View Post
    ...maybe he bypassed the switch, kind of like leaving the switch on?
    May have - but you don't want to do that. Usually it would be harmless as the lock-outs on the gearbox cover would prevent the OD from engaging in 1st or Reverse -- but the penalty for allowing that to happen is high enough you do not want to solely and always rely on those lock-outs.

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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    Thank you, If it is wired this way, what would be the simplest way of disabling the OD until I get it figured out? Is the a fuse?

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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    Hard to say without seeing what has been done. The original setup did not involve any fuses, but it would fairly easy to disconnect at the relay on the back of the battery box (under the dash).

    There are other "automatic" setups; I believe AH originally used a system where the OD would engage when you let off the throttle at a fairly high rpm (or maybe it was high manifold vacuum); then disengage when you change gears. I don't know if there was a way to override that when, for example, 3rd direct is a little too tall for a twisty mountain road, but 2nd direct is too low for the straightaways.
    Randall
    56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
    71 Stag LE1473L waiting engine rebuild
    71 Stag LE2013LBW waiting gearbox rebuild

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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    I also have a 56 TS10193L with engine TS10543E.
    I haven't seen anyone mention that engagement of the OD in reverse gear with ultimately break the weakest link in the OD/transmission.
    Jim Farris
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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    Quote Originally Posted by jfarris View Post
    I haven't seen anyone mention that engagement of the OD in reverse gear with ultimately break the weakest link in the OD/transmission.
    More accurately, moving the car backwards with the overdrive engaged will cause damage. This is true even if the gearbox is in 4th gear and you are, for example, rolling backwards down a hill.

    Normally the OD is automatically disengaged in reverse by the action of the lockout switches; but there are various possible faults. So if you ever start to backup and feel some resistance (feels kind of like trying to back over a curb), DON'T FORCE IT! Find and fix the problem, or if necessary call a tow truck. Even a tow is lots cheaper than repairing the OD after the sprag clutch has come through the rear housing.
    Randall
    56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
    71 Stag LE1473L waiting engine rebuild
    71 Stag LE2013LBW waiting gearbox rebuild

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    Re: "56 TR3 Engine Verification

    Thanks for all of the help!

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