Wheel scraping... [and wheel-arch clearance]

I know many say their wheels (tires) scrape on some turns, but I think mine do more than they should (or more than most). Yeah, I have over-sized tires, but at the recent All British Field Meet I did a brief comparison of cars in the Bugeye row... and my front clearance (top of wheel to fender arch) was the smallest of the bunch. So, I'm wondering about my front springs. Although I should have done more comparisons/measurements, I failed to do that.

So, I'm inquiring about common dimensions that anyone can offer (that might get me to believing I need to investigate the front springs - because they are either worn of the previous owner modified them like they did the rear leaf-springs). I'm pretty sure my original lever-arm shocks are fine. Sample pics attached.

Knowing that tires will be a factor, are there common dimensions I can look for... like control arm to ground or something else? Or is there an easy way to know (other than the clearance) that I need to improve this?
Thanks.

Mark,
I measured from the top of my wheel to the bottom of the wheel arch which was 6 inches. I run 175/70x13 and get some rubbing when cornering hard etc. Don't you have 185/70's?
Gary

Thanks Gary (I was going to email you direct too). Here's another thought that might be fully independent of tires... the distance from the center of the wheel hub to the top of the arch. Might be more universal?
I'm running same as you (175/70x13). 6" seems crazy high, but you mean to the inside of the wheel arch (top), right? How about from the top of the tire to the top of the exterior fender arch?

6 inches from top of wheel and 13 inches from center hub to bottom inside of wheel arch (+/-). Also about 1 1/2 inches from to of tire to wheel arch, but a lot more variable with that.
Gary

Most excellent!!! Thank you. Although I'll go measure mine, your wheel gap looks larger than mine. Every little bit might help.

EDIT: yep, there's less room with mine. It appears that the center of the hub to the exterior fender arch is more like 12.5". That 1/2" might be substantial. Gap from tire to exterior arch might be not that much under 1.5"... maybe 1.25" (but as you say, variable). As the photo indicates, about 23.5" from floor to exterior arch. Hmmm.

Did you make sure there are no spacers between the lower a-arm and the spring pan?

Trevor Jessie said:

Did you make sure there are no spacers between the lower a-arm and the spring pan?

Click to expand...

No, but I'll certainly do that next (though might have thought that would add to the room for the wheel).

Common practice for lowering a spridget is adding spacers to lower the spring pan. 1/4" spacer would lower the car approximately 1/2" due to geometry.

Trevor Jessie said:

Common practice for lowering a spridget is adding spacers to lower the spring pan. 1/4" spacer would lower the car approximately 1/2" due to geometry.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Will investigate. The previous owner definitely modified the rear (and I'm near the bump-stops there).

I am running 175/70x13 on my Bugeye as well. My rubbing only occurred when I had my wheels turned as far to the right as they would go, like when I was backing out of the driveway. It actually was the just the front of the left tire hitting the bottom-most portion of the bonnet where the metal curves toward the back of the car.

It wasn't a bad rub--it just made some annoying noise. It started when I rebuilt my suspension, which I assume changed the geometry a bit. It went away when I put 1/2" spacers under the spring pan, which I did because I thought it might cure the problem and it did. (I like the way it looks and drives better anyway).

Regarding the usefulness of measurements, I am not sure what that is going to tell you, Boink. I also looked at a lot of Bugeyes at a show and they were all different a little here and there. I will observe that while my bonnet looks just fine at a glance, when one scrutinizes it very closely, from one side to the other, it is warped here and there 1/4 to 1/2 of an inch depending on where you are looking. It may be that each side is fastened to the slotted holes in the hinges a little differently or those hinges might be sprung a little. When my bodyshop friend said, "I can fix it just like the factory did, let me get a 2x4" that made a lot of sense.

Considering that these are seamed together from multiple pieces of compound curved sheet metal, and have been slammed closed hundreds of times over the decades, and maybe bumped into an immovable object a few times, I am not sure what conclusion you can draw from a tape measure.

The age, condition and type of coil springs you have would also make a difference I think. A racer was going to give me some shorter springs he had to try and cure my problem, but when the spacers worked I didn't bother. So, if you are gathering data, perhaps another measurement you could take would involve comparing the height of your coil springs with the car on the ground versus someone else's (although I suppose engine weight might be a factor). On the other hand I might not know what I'm talking about. :rapture:

Sorry for the long-winded post.

Excellent! Thanks. Mine only scrape when I'm driving it a bit hard and bouncing a bit on a turn (but never when driving slowly). I think it's an aging-spring thing.

Probably your springs, Boink, the steel does fatigue over time and they do lose their springiness --I assume your shocks are OK. Your front suspension looks pretty clean in the photos.

Thanks. Doing the standard shocks test, there doesn't seem to be much bounce. I'm leaning to worn springs.

Boink, in case it would help, here are some specs on front coil springs from Norm Kerr who posts on the MG Experience. If you wanted to go to the trouble you could pull a spring and see where it stands (get it?) relative to the original dimensions.

"The front spring stiffness was 271 lb/in throughout production, the bugeyes were 9.4" free length, increased to 9.59" in 1/'66, and 9.85" in 10/'72,and 10.2 in 1/'76.

"Aftermarket springs are usually 340 lb/in or 400+, as most folks want to stiffen the front end for fancy handling.

"The specs on the springs are (besides what I already told you in the above posting): wire diameter 0.5", coil diameter 3.625", fitted length 7.08" (when under a 750lb working load), effective coils 7."

Excellent! I was wondering what those dimensions were (and couldn't find them).