Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 35 of 35

Thread: 5 Speed Issue

Forum to discuss Austin Healey Sports Cars

  1. #21
    Obi Wan Patrick67BJ8's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Holly Lake Ranch, (East) Texas
    Posts
    2,188
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    14
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: 5 Speed Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigC View Post
    You can do this in any gear position you want, although neutral is simplest, especially if you have the shifter out. Removal of these items will not affect any components inside the gearbox.

    Under each of the three cap screws you will first find a spring. After removing the spring, you will probably need a small magnet to remove the ball. Their entire purpose is to create a little extra pressure on the shift rod when it is in gear or in neutral. It does this by pushing the ball into an appropriately located notch on the rod. My main concern here is that, since all 3 sets don't show the same part #, that perhaps the wrong combo was used in the bottom(5th gear) location. We have a W58 "training" unit at work. I will see if I can get some pics to make this easier to understand.
    do t forget the tool to remove the cap screws. The second from the bottom is for 5th gear. Stretching the spring us okay, but I've been told that it will return to its manufactured spec after a while.
    Patrick
    '67 Metallic Golden Beige/Red
    Owned since '72

  2. #22
    Jedi Trainee
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Martinez, Ca
    Posts
    203
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: 5 Speed Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick67BJ8 View Post
    do t forget the tool to remove the cap screws. The second from the bottom is for 5th gear. Stretching the spring us okay, but I've been told that it will return to its manufactured spec after a while.
    Patrick, not saying you are wrong because I can't see your trans, but a fourth detent on the side of the center carrier would seem to be the exception rather than the rule. I am not counting the one that faces up on the top. My parts system shows it exists, but the Technical Information System(digital) and the few old print repair manuals we still have don't show it for any of the W5x-series boxes. It's application would be for the reverse gear shift rod. By chance do you know what the exact original application was?

    With that said, let's make it simple and say 5th gear detent is third from the top.

    Depending on the age of the gearbox, the cap screws should be 6mm(early) or T-40 TorX(later)

  3. #23
    Jedi Trainee
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Martinez, Ca
    Posts
    203
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: 5 Speed Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuzman View Post
    Thanks Craig. Pictures would certainly help.
    John, it seems our foreman has replaced the old W58 training box with a newer R-150 series unit that has not been opened. Fundamentally the same, but laid out a little differently. I'll get the pics up in the AM.

  4. #24
    Jedi Trainee
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    West Chester, Ohio
    Posts
    350
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: 5 Speed Issue

    Craig -

    Thanks again. I hope to fiddle with the gearbox early next week. Right now, I am focused on our Bonita Springs home. My Corvette and Bugeye are housed down there.
    John Kuzman
    West Chester, OH & Bonita Springs, FL
    1959 Bugeye, 1275 w/5 speed; 1960 Bugeye Project
    1963 BJ7; 1969 Corvette; 1972 Spitfire; 1980 El Camino

  5. #25
    Obi Wan Patrick67BJ8's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Holly Lake Ranch, (East) Texas
    Posts
    2,188
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    14
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: 5 Speed Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigC View Post
    Patrick, not saying you are wrong because I can't see your trans, but a fourth detent on the side of the center carrier would seem to be the exception rather than the rule. I am not counting the one that faces up on the top. My parts system shows it exists, but the Technical Information System(digital) and the few old print repair manuals we still have don't show it for any of the W5x-series boxes. It's application would be for the reverse gear shift rod. By chance do you know what the exact original application was?

    With that said, let's make it simple and say 5th gear detent is third from the top.

    Depending on the age of the gearbox, the cap screws should be 6mm(early) or T-40 TorX(later)
    No problem. I'm only quoting what the transmission repair shop told me to do and the location of the 5th gear detent cap. They could be mistaken? The T-40 Torqx was correct. The trans came to me used from Pete Delaney along with my kit. It is a W58 with the 28% 5th gear ratio. I did a lot of research on the problem with the 5th gear sliding out of gear and one seemingly very knowledge experienced Toyota trans repairman said it would be do the a bad 5th gear synchro assembly. That had already been replaced along with the 5th gear so that is a mystery why it still didn't work.after R&R the trans three times I'm getting rather good at it.
    Last edited by Patrick67BJ8; 09-10-2017 at 09:16 AM. Reason: Misspelled words
    Patrick
    '67 Metallic Golden Beige/Red
    Owned since '72

  6. #26
    Jedi Trainee
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Martinez, Ca
    Posts
    203
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: 5 Speed Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigC View Post
    Patrick, not saying you are wrong because I can't see your trans, but a fourth detent on the side of the center carrier would seem to be the exception rather than the rule. I am not counting the one that faces up on the top. My parts system shows it exists, but the Technical Information System(digital) and the few old print repair manuals we still have don't show it for any of the W5x-series boxes. It's application would be for the reverse gear shift rod. By chance do you know what the exact original application was?

    With that said, let's make it simple and say 5th gear detent is third from the top.

    Depending on the age of the gearbox, the cap screws should be 6mm(early) or T-40 TorX(later)
    I just want to confirm that the additional detent set shown in our parts system is correct. It is for reverse ---BUT--- it is located inside the transmission as part of the 5th/reverse linkage. That means only 3 externally accessible detent sets.

    This means that the shift rod/detent stack goes like this: top is 1st/2nd gear, middle is 3rd/4th and the bottom is 5th gear.

  7. #27
    Jedi Trainee
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Martinez, Ca
    Posts
    203
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: 5 Speed Issue

    John, here are the pics. Like I said, they are from a different trans but the arrangement is exactly the same.

    The first pic shows the three detent locations. On your trans, the top one will be set back a bit due to the shape of the carrier plate.

    20170909_122215.jpg

    This next pic is of the spring in the hole after plug removal.

    20170909_122541.jpg

    Now, I'm pulling the spring out with a small magnet.

    20170909_122631.jpg

    Next, the magnet is used to remove the ball.
    20170909_122657.jpg

    Finally, a picture of the ball, spring and cap.

    20170909_122730.jpg

    My suggestion would be to remove all 3 sets, making sure to keep them in order. The balls, springs and caps for the lower two sets should match each other. The upper cap should be slightly shorter than the other two. I don't know what is different about the upper ball and spring, but I suspect the spring may be shorter. I can only confirm that those two items have unique part numbers.

    The goal with this procedure is make sure that the wrong cap, a too short or too soft spring, or wrong sized ball have not been installed in the lowest detent hole. Any problems, post up, ideally with pictures.

  8. #28
    Jedi Trainee
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    West Chester, Ohio
    Posts
    350
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: 5 Speed Issue

    Craig -

    Thank you very much for the pictures. This information, combined with the pics, gives me confidence that I can at least rule out the detent balls/springs/cap combinations.
    Do I need to drain out any gear lube prior to removing the caps?

    I may be delayed in getting to this project, at least until I get the initial assessment of damages to our Florida home.
    John Kuzman
    West Chester, OH & Bonita Springs, FL
    1959 Bugeye, 1275 w/5 speed; 1960 Bugeye Project
    1963 BJ7; 1969 Corvette; 1972 Spitfire; 1980 El Camino

  9. #29
    Jedi Trainee
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Martinez, Ca
    Posts
    203
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: 5 Speed Issue

    Hope things are OK at the Florida home.

    You shouldn't see more than a drip or two of oil. The fill plug, and, therefore, the oil level are lower than the detent holes.

  10. #30
    Jedi Trainee
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    West Chester, Ohio
    Posts
    350
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: 5 Speed Issue

    Had a chance to look at the gearbox today. Firstly, I removed the shifter and confirmed that both the shifter ball seat and the end bushing are brand new.

    Next, removed the three side shift rod caps, springs and balls. Top: Shorter cap, longer spring with yellow stripe; Middle-Longer cap, shorter, softer spring with no stripe; Bottom-Longer cap, longer spring with yellow stripe. Middle and bottom caps match. Top and bottom springs match. Here is a picture of the springs and caps. Left to right is top-middle-bottom.

    Shift Springs.jpg

    Heading to Florida home Wednesday. As of right now, nobody can get in the development due to too many trees across the roads and standing water. No power.
    John Kuzman
    West Chester, OH & Bonita Springs, FL
    1959 Bugeye, 1275 w/5 speed; 1960 Bugeye Project
    1963 BJ7; 1969 Corvette; 1972 Spitfire; 1980 El Camino

  11. #31
    Yoda HealeyRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    5,300
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    6
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    9
    Thanked in
    8 Posts

    Re: 5 Speed Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuzman View Post
    Heading to Florida home Wednesday. As of right now, nobody can get in the development due to too many trees across the roads and standing water. No power.
    Saw on the news there was up to 3 ft of water in Bonita Springs. Hope there's not too much damage in your home.


    Rick

  12. #32
    Jedi Trainee
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Martinez, Ca
    Posts
    203
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: 5 Speed Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuzman View Post

    Next, removed the three side shift rod caps, springs and balls. Top: Shorter cap, longer spring with yellow stripe; Middle-Longer cap, shorter, softer spring with no stripe; Bottom-Longer cap, longer spring with yellow stripe. Middle and bottom caps match. Top and bottom springs match. Here is a picture of the springs and caps. Left to right is top-middle-bottom.

    Shift Springs.jpg
    I suspect you will want to move the one yellow spring down one hole and put the unmarked spring in the top hole. The bottom two sets of caps, springs and balls should be the same. I will check with my parts guys to see if they can confirm the yellow painted springs as being correct for the lower holes.

  13. #33
    Jedi Trainee
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    West Chester, Ohio
    Posts
    350
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: 5 Speed Issue

    Thanks again, Craig. Looks like I may be running out of the easier options.
    John Kuzman
    West Chester, OH & Bonita Springs, FL
    1959 Bugeye, 1275 w/5 speed; 1960 Bugeye Project
    1963 BJ7; 1969 Corvette; 1972 Spitfire; 1980 El Camino

  14. #34
    Jedi Trainee
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    West Chester, Ohio
    Posts
    350
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: 5 Speed Issue

    UPDATE: You are not going to believe this. Finally established communications with the rebuilder. He could not understand why the gearbox was jumping out of 5th gear, but he decided to send me another recently rebuilt W58. Oh joy, I get to pull out the gearbox and do a swap. Did the swap last weekend. Buttoned everything up, and the last task before adding gear lube and the shifter was to install the driveshaft.

    Driveshaft installation is simple; Just slip it in the tunnel, slide the yoke into the gearbox, push it forward until the rear pinion yoke lines up and attach 4 bolts. WRONG! The splined yoke of the driveshaft (brand new with the "Smitty" kit) goes into the gearbox part way then suddenly stops. The splined yoke will not slide in enough to bolt up the rear pinion yoke. Remember, this yoke fit fine on the first W58, so it is not the yoke. Looking down the shifter hole, I can start to see the tip of the yoke, but it will not budge forward any further.

    I slid a PVC fitting with closely the same ID and OD as the splined yoke, and it slid in with no problem all the way past the splines of the W58 output shaft. The yoke also slid fine on the first rebuilt W58 and on an old W-series gearbox that I bought off EBay years ago.

    It seems that the output shaft of the second W58 is either twisted, galled, swollen or bent. no amount of even gentle persuasion will get the yoke to slide into the gearbox. I even took the yoke off the driveshaft so that I was dealing with a straight shot into the W58, and the result was the same. Anyone have any thoughts?

    I am going down the shop later today and pushing the BJ7 to the back of the shop for the winter. I have much more important things to do with my time than pulling the gearbox AGAIN. In the spring, I plan to visit the local Toyota Service Department and ask for the name of a reputable, reliable rebuilder and take the W58 that jumps out of gear to that shop for repairs.
    John Kuzman
    West Chester, OH & Bonita Springs, FL
    1959 Bugeye, 1275 w/5 speed; 1960 Bugeye Project
    1963 BJ7; 1969 Corvette; 1972 Spitfire; 1980 El Camino

  15. #35
    Jedi Trainee
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fleming Island, Florida
    Posts
    264
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: 5 Speed Issue

    I drove a BN7 with a Toyota gear box back to Florida after purchasing it in southern Virginia a few years back. I struggled to get the car into fifth gear and thought I had a bad tranny. I quickly took it to the local car restoration "expert", who replaced the nylon "boot" on the lower ball. I had brought the car to his shop with the tranny completed exposed, so that was a very easy job that cost me $160 or so. The fixer couldn't get it into gear when I went to pick it up. I then joined the Toyota truck owners Web group and learned about the green bushing made by Dorman and shown in the Summit Racing ads a couple of forum members posted. The little bushing shown alongside it was the one my expert installed. I paid about the $11.97 price quoted in the Summit ad at my local Toyota dealer. The parts guy didn't know what I was talking about, event though I had the tranny "tower" components with me, but he found a mechanic in the shop who identified the part for him. I might add that not a trace to the larger bushing remained inside the shift lever tower. The addition of the bushing instantly solved my shift problems. For those unfamiliar to Toyota gear boxes, the shift tower has an "artillery" lock up, simply depress the top, rotate, and it lifts off. Or that's the way I remember it. If you visit sites that sell rock climbing truck components--Toyota gear boxes seem much favored for this--you will find a variety of these bushings offered for sale. I was considering a new gear box until I found my solution.
    Owner of a 1960 BN7 with Toyota 5 speed and a '92 Porsche 968 coupe. Former owner '62 Jaguar MK2, MG-TF brought back from military service in Italy 1958, '61 Healey BT7, pre-A Porsche 356, and a Porsche 944.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •