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Thread: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

  1. #1
    Jedi Hopeful
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    Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    I am finally starting to get back to this project and this weekend I hauled out the frame to get a look at it and get it ready so I could start thinking about connecting the front and back clips... anyway, I noticed another shortcut one of the POs made. Not only did they cut every bolt they could find, but they also cleanly cut off the pins or whatever they are called that the lower control arms mount to. Are heat and patience the only solution here or, since I will likely modify slightly the suspension to this '56 anyway, is there a work around using a tr6 hanger or something?

    Cheers,
    kerry
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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    Bummer. The through pin is available from the big three. Getting that old one out may be a job, though. I suspect it is tack welded somewhere near the center.
    John

    1955 TR2

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    Jedi Knight
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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    Considering that the parts suppliers carry that pin, we might assume that replacement is possible and that someone has done it. As John says, there are two gussets on the inside that are not easily accessible so a plan for repair is not obvious to me. However, you have little to loose at this point.
    Certainly a shame. Some people should not own a sawsall.
    Tom
    1960 TR3A TS73117 (under restoration year 6, owned since 1964)
    1959 TR3A TS58023 (in case I never finish the one above)
    1969 Triumph Herald 13/60 (a whim)
    1973 Buick Apollo (was Dad's car)
    1992 BMW325IC (fun to drive)

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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    I am hopeful that there isn't a spot weld in there, I checked and couldn't see a crimp in the metal or anything.

    My plan currently is to heat in two or three points and hope for the best - I was hoping there was a rubber sleeve that I could melt out, but no luck there. A short attempt with a puller and later a five pound sledge didn't budge it. If need be, I can get a grinder in to cut two of the three weld points but would then have to drill for a long time with many, many bits to get the third to release... and then repair all the metal around it for strength... ugh

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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    I have frequently contemplated that fulcrum pin when I rebuild my cars. They always have rust from the original rubber bushings used, and I would have loved to replace the pins on both restorations. But, hitting the pin with hammers just seemed to give that very solid feel...like it was more than just a press fit. I really suspect there is a weld inside the tower somewhere that you can't see.

    I've been sitting here thinking, and you may want to make a call to Macy's Garage. They are the only professional rebuilder I can think of who MAY have had to tackle this job. Of course, they may never have done it either.

    After a BFH attempt, I would be prone to attempt drilling from both sides. Start with a small bit and work up. I would think you only need to go in about an inch, as that seems to be where the bind is...and you can see the center from under is clear. Once close, a die grinder and metal burr should finish getting the residue out. It would be time consuming to do it this way.
    John

    1955 TR2

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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    Thanks for the suggestions John.

    You may recall that at one point I was giving up on this project due to lack of time and had contacted a Canadian rebuilder in the next province over thinking he might want to literally pick up the pieces of my project - it didn't work out as one of his comments was this fulcrum pin - he said they were a royal PITA to deal with.

    I plan on contact him again to see just how he deals with it. If it was mild steel, I could probably drill for a while, but I suspect this is hardened... so its not going to be fun.

    Also, from years back when I collected this project I had a post about the peculiar front brake assembly - I have a pair of the original TR2, non-adapter kit front drum brakes that came with the car... it's a '56 though and should have discs... as such, I have some sourcing and considerations in that regard and am toying with the idea of going to a tr4 or tr6 set up... the pin may be the thing that pushes me there..

    (Side note, I should probably start pulling this together into a build thread)

    Cheers,
    Kerry

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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    This pin comes up frequently in posts...but usually because owners think it must be replaced due to corrosion. The later nylon bushing upgrade uses a steel sleeve that goes over the rusted pin ends and eliminates the need to deal with removing them...and that is where all those threads ended. Your's is by far the extreme, as you have no choice but to replace the pins. You definitely need to post your results, as you are treading on new ground. I, for one, am very interested in what really holds them in...and no doubt some other PO will need to do the job in the future!
    John

    1955 TR2

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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    Thanks John - treading new ground is sometimes good... here it's kind of like being in the hospital and having the doctor pull in his colleagues because you have something he's never seen before...

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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    Are you sure the pin is hard? It may be just a tougher steel than mild steel.

    If you can drill it out to about 3/8" and tap it you could screw a bolt in and jack it out using a piece of pipe and a nut.

    David

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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    Good news pin was not hardened...

    Especially good news since heat and the air hammer and or sledge had no effect.

    Can clear an inch in 30 minutes - but that is from the easy to access rear - there are mounts that are in the way of the drill on the front so that will be a challenge for another day. Will restock on bits for the weekend and give it another go then. By the way, for others doing this, don't drill more than a 1/4 inch with any drill size before stepping up... makes it easier to clear broken bits.

    The first couple of inches are easy as this is the standard narrow drill bit length - will have to get creative for the rest. David, appreciate the bolt suggestion, this thing is so solidly in there, I am not optimistic of it releasing - butr may resort to that soon...

    Think I will start a build thread for all of this - if nothing else than for therapy...
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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    Looks like a job for a 90 degree drill. They work very well or at least the ones I have used do and have surprising torque.

    David

    https://www.harborfreight.com/3-8-ei...ill-67474.html

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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    I have a 90 degree drill. I don't use it often, but it is indispensable when it's needed. In this case it may still be too big to fit. I can't remember if there is room to feed a long bit through the front bracket or not. Your first hole is looking great!
    John

    1955 TR2

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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    Kerry,
    Is the pin housed inside of a tube on the area just behind the bracket you have started at? I looked at a bare TR4 frame and it looks like there is a tube there. I say this because if it is inside a tube it might make your approach different. Say you could just go ahead and cut the pin and tube next to the inner upright piece and concentrate on getting that part out and then replace pin and tubes on the outers. Just a thought.
    Charley

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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    Charley, I have one somewhat apart and it does have a tube. The tube, however, is welded to the to the to brackets in six different places, My guess is that some of the welds go into the pin as well. Another option might be to cut the brackets and remove the pin tube and all. The tube and brackets seem simple enough to reproduce but it would take a better welder than me to get them welded back in. Looks like it could be done though. Also looks like the welds might have been a bit overdone at the factory too. Perhaps a couple of good tacks in tight places rather than going all the way around the tube. As Charlie says, just a thought.
    Tom
    1960 TR3A TS73117 (under restoration year 6, owned since 1964)
    1959 TR3A TS58023 (in case I never finish the one above)
    1969 Triumph Herald 13/60 (a whim)
    1973 Buick Apollo (was Dad's car)
    1992 BMW325IC (fun to drive)

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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    Is it worth ordering the pins to see what diameter they are? You will need them to do the reassembly anyway.

    That would show you how it was assembled maybe.

    David

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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    Hi folks,

    The pins have been ordered, so there may be some insight there - don't know.

    I broke a 1/2" bit last night and spent 20 min digging it out, so I do have some concerns about what to do it this happens too far into the bore.

    Charlie and Tom, yes, I am considering cutting and replacing, 4 of the 5 major weld locations are accessible, the rear side of the front attached to the upright is not though and I am concerned about structural integrity if I have to grind for access from the front. A reinforcing plate from the front might remedy that though, but it would show.

    The weld on the front side of the strut has a slight depression - if there was a tack or crimp, it might be here. If I give up on drilling, I will first try and grind here to see if the pin releases.

    Going to try and source some longer bits and go from there - I am at the limits of the ones that I have already and am just shy of half way. By the way, even with a 90 degree attachment, I would have a hard time fishing the bits in there given the limited space.

    As John has said, a little bit every day...
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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    I have to say that you are really sticking with it. I think that my last ditch fall back solution would be to cut everything out with either a saw or a cutting torch, and weld enough plates in there to replace the strength needed. Given the locations you are working in, I would say the fact that it might show would be very low on my list of priorities. Once it all gets painted black and all assembled you can hardly define any parts in that area. Not to mention that it is well behind the wheel and tire.
    Charley

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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    I'm no help...but am am cheering from the sidelines.
    John

    1955 TR2

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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    Thanks John, appreciate it.

    100$ worth of drill bits got me no where - currently cutting the DS apart (slowly) angles are brutal for all my tools. Using a combination of drilling, grinding, burr bits and those small drill-base cutting discs to break welds. The forward upright is really in the way, I could easily cut and fold it over, but I want that and the rear one to remain my guides for the re-install...

    For the pieces I have cut out, the pin and sleeve are fused - I see no way they were coming apart without drilling completely through.

    One option would be to remove the front assembly and crossbar so you could drill from the front - I opted to cut before I realized how difficult the angles are...not sure which would have been easier....

  20. #20
    Jedi Knight
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    Re: Tell me there is a trick to removing lower control arm pin...

    It sounds like you have a plan. Good for you. If you get a chance, snap a few pictures. Too bad about all the drill bits.
    You are right in trying to keep as many reference points as possible. In addition, the factory service manual has a fairly detailed drawing.
    Tom
    1960 TR3A TS73117 (under restoration year 6, owned since 1964)
    1959 TR3A TS58023 (in case I never finish the one above)
    1969 Triumph Herald 13/60 (a whim)
    1973 Buick Apollo (was Dad's car)
    1992 BMW325IC (fun to drive)

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