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Experiencing a wobble at sixty mph, I noticed the car had no weights on the front wheels so I had the wheels balanced during a recent radiator service. The wobble didn't disappear but now occurs anywhere between sixty and seventy as indicated on the speedometer. After discussing with the mechanic, I was instructed to have the rear wheels balanced which weren't done previously. Hard to believe that would get rid of the problem. What other reason could there be to cause this issue assuming the front wheels were balanced properly?
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TR2/3/3A Wobble
- Thread starter frankfast
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Online
Could be several issues. I suppose rear wheel imbalance would also cause wobble.
Are they wire wheels or disc? If wire, balancing is a bit more involved than many shops can do these days.
The TR3 I owned a while back had original disc wheels that were warped beyond effective balancing, so I replaced them with Minilite style wheels and took care of the problem.
Keep us posted on what you find.
Mickey
Are they wire wheels or disc? If wire, balancing is a bit more involved than many shops can do these days.
The TR3 I owned a while back had original disc wheels that were warped beyond effective balancing, so I replaced them with Minilite style wheels and took care of the problem.
Keep us posted on what you find.
Mickey
martx-5
Yoda
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Have a friend with a TR3B (with steel wheels) that had a wheel balance problem. He had all the wheels balanced a couple of times, but no joy. I went over to his place and we checked the runout on the wheels the best we could with a dial indicator. I don't remember a reading laterally or axially of more than about 0.50"-0.60", which should have been OK. However, the only thing that cured his problem using the same tires, was what Mickey mentioned...a set of alloy rims. The car looks better with the Minilite style alloys anyway.
My TR3A has wire wheels, but I had them serviced at Hendrix wire wheel, and they are dead smooth to as fast as I dare drive the car.
My TR3A has wire wheels, but I had them serviced at Hendrix wire wheel, and they are dead smooth to as fast as I dare drive the car.
Online
+1 on Mickey's suggestions.
My TR3 had the original steel wheels, and vibrated when I reached 45 mph and above. Over the years, it had evidently hit a few curbs and pot holes; three of the wheels were bent and could not be straightened without severely weakening the steel.
Here's one "bent wheel" test:
1. raise wheel off ground.
2. spin wheel by hand
3. point your finger toward the edge of the rim, and see if the rim moves back and forth away from your fingertip as it's spinning. If it does - wheel is bent.
It has nothing to do with balancing.
About 1:30 into this video, you'll see the idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzcc-9DXRN4
Hope this helps.
Tom M.
My TR3 had the original steel wheels, and vibrated when I reached 45 mph and above. Over the years, it had evidently hit a few curbs and pot holes; three of the wheels were bent and could not be straightened without severely weakening the steel.
Here's one "bent wheel" test:
1. raise wheel off ground.
2. spin wheel by hand
3. point your finger toward the edge of the rim, and see if the rim moves back and forth away from your fingertip as it's spinning. If it does - wheel is bent.
It has nothing to do with balancing.
About 1:30 into this video, you'll see the idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzcc-9DXRN4
Hope this helps.
Tom M.
"Are they wire wheels or disc?"
They are steel disc wheels.
Hard to believe that a bent rim can be balanced properly and if they could, there shouldn't be a problem with wobble.
Don't want to change to an alloy rim. The car is very original and I like the look of the steel wheels and hub caps.
They are steel disc wheels.
Hard to believe that a bent rim can be balanced properly and if they could, there shouldn't be a problem with wobble.
Don't want to change to an alloy rim. The car is very original and I like the look of the steel wheels and hub caps.
charleyf
Luke Skywalker
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I have friend with a TR3 that sent his original disc wheels away to have them straightened. It cost him to learn the lesson that despite their efforts they did little for the wheels. He now runs Panasports as do I on my TR4s.
The disc wheel set that I pulled off of my 3B when set on the shop floor without any tire and pushed across the smooth floor would move in all directions except a straight line. So on the 3B I switched to wire wheels. But then I learned that lesson that used wire wheels are often JUNK. So eventually I bought a set of Dayton wires. I went to a major supplier and ask that they check the brand-new-out -of -the -box wheels for straightness prior to mounting the tires. They were on wheel 7 when they got to the fourth tire.
So the question you have to ask yourself is the wobbly ride worth the original look?
Charley
The disc wheel set that I pulled off of my 3B when set on the shop floor without any tire and pushed across the smooth floor would move in all directions except a straight line. So on the 3B I switched to wire wheels. But then I learned that lesson that used wire wheels are often JUNK. So eventually I bought a set of Dayton wires. I went to a major supplier and ask that they check the brand-new-out -of -the -box wheels for straightness prior to mounting the tires. They were on wheel 7 when they got to the fourth tire.
So the question you have to ask yourself is the wobbly ride worth the original look?
Charley
TR4nut
Yoda
Offline
It might be worth talking with your local tire place to see if they can tell you how well balanced everything really is. Over time, a lot of these old TR3 rims get bent and may have some runout. They can be balanced at a shop but the runout is not eliminated. Here is a similar conversation on older rims, true or not that talks about the issue and why you can feel a wobble at certain speeds even with balanced tires:
https://nastyz28.com/threads/wheel-balance-problem-vibration-at-high-speed.213951/
I like the original look and if I find a good pair of rims I'll use them. But the set I had had for my 3A had an extreme wobble around 55-60 which drove me crazy. I went with alloys.
https://nastyz28.com/threads/wheel-balance-problem-vibration-at-high-speed.213951/
I like the original look and if I find a good pair of rims I'll use them. But the set I had had for my 3A had an extreme wobble around 55-60 which drove me crazy. I went with alloys.
CJD
Yoda
Offline
A crooked wheel can still be balanced. The "wobble" would come from the tire alternating between riding on it's edge and then flat as it rolls along the road.
Another possibility is tire delamination. I've had several tires over the years that could be balanced, but were delaminated and always caused shaking at speed. Most eventually wore flat spots down to the belts. One came apart and tore up my car as the steel belts beat it to death.
If the car has sat for very long periods on the tires, they can develop flat spots. You can balance those too....but they will also cause shaking.
How old are the tires?
Another possibility is tire delamination. I've had several tires over the years that could be balanced, but were delaminated and always caused shaking at speed. Most eventually wore flat spots down to the belts. One came apart and tore up my car as the steel belts beat it to death.
If the car has sat for very long periods on the tires, they can develop flat spots. You can balance those too....but they will also cause shaking.
How old are the tires?
I have a set of Dayton 48 spoke chrome wires on my TR2 and get the wobble at the steering wheel at about 60 mph as well. New tires were installed on the rims by a competent shop so I assume there was balancing done at that time, but I guess balancing again is the first thing to do? I was a little bummed to read about the new Daytons not all being straight, as mine were obtained from a reseller and never checked. Thanks for the thread and any suggestions welcome!
Dan
Dan
charleyf
Luke Skywalker
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I am sure that I was fortunate that the wire wheel outlet that I used honored my request about checking them first. I suspect that they may have been as surprised as I was. But I knew that I had just driven about 200 miles to get there and that meant that I was going to be 200 miles away from a reliable place to balance or work on them. They routinely worked on wire wheels at this place, so I am sure they saw this as a small task to bring them into alignment.
Charley
Charley
"How old are the tires?"
Tires look new and are radials. Since the front tires have been balanced, I think I'll try balancing the rears and rotating them to the front. If one of the front wheels is not straight, maybe rotating to the rear will help if the rear wheels are better.
Tires look new and are radials. Since the front tires have been balanced, I think I'll try balancing the rears and rotating them to the front. If one of the front wheels is not straight, maybe rotating to the rear will help if the rear wheels are better.
Online
Tires "look new"? Careful! Check the date code to be sure. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11
Standard recommendation these days is to toss any tire older than ten years old, regardless of appearance. (Many are dropping that to seven or eight.) And even if fairly new, a tire could be defective.
Your plan to balance the rears and rotate sounds good; may help identify the culprit.
I was about to have the rear wheels balanced but after taking them off I noticed the one on the right side was bent. There was a heavy weight at the damaged location probably in an effort to balance it. I decided to put the spare on but that wheel was also bent also with a weight in the location of the damaged spot. So now I'm in the market for a steel wheel that has no obvious damage. Anybody have one that I might purchase?
D
Deleted member 8987
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One of the tricks we used to use on a road test to try to zero in better on front or rear was a hand when it shook.
Lay a hand on the dash. If the issue is there, front. Lay a hand on the driveshaft tunnel, if there, rear.
And rear can be driveshaft balance, also..and if the driveshaft is really bad, you'll feel it both places.
I have a car..had it 48 years..and over 80 you cannot see out of the rearview mirror. It clears up a bit about 100.
Changed drums, wheels, tyres, balanced..balanced driveshaft, replaced and balanced driveshaft....juts for repair replaced the transmission (gears gone), checked wheel runout, last engine made sure engine was balanced and flywheel/pressure plate.
And it still does the same thing it did when I got the car 48 years ago.
Lay a hand on the dash. If the issue is there, front. Lay a hand on the driveshaft tunnel, if there, rear.
And rear can be driveshaft balance, also..and if the driveshaft is really bad, you'll feel it both places.
I have a car..had it 48 years..and over 80 you cannot see out of the rearview mirror. It clears up a bit about 100.
Changed drums, wheels, tyres, balanced..balanced driveshaft, replaced and balanced driveshaft....juts for repair replaced the transmission (gears gone), checked wheel runout, last engine made sure engine was balanced and flywheel/pressure plate.
And it still does the same thing it did when I got the car 48 years ago.
If I could get to 80mph maybe I would be satisfied - maybe not. Had the rim checked and its beyond repair. The whole hub is bent and must have taken a good side impact. The spare also is bent but haven't checked to see if it can be straightened. There's a repair shop locally that I've found. Will check with them tomorrow.
After reading your post, I'm not optimistic.
After reading your post, I'm not optimistic.
martx-5
Yoda
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OOPS....yeah, that was a mistake. I shoulda caught that. It should have read 0.050"-0.060". Half an inch sure don't need a dial indicator!
Online
I think you've found the problem. Bent wheels cause vibration - but unfortunately a bend, especially near the center (hub) can't be safely corrected on an original steel wheel, without weakening the steel. We talked about this here on BCF over ten years ago. There are companies who say they can "true" a bent wheel, but the heat-process they use isn't friendly to steel.
Just my two cents.
When I replaced the bent steel wheels on my TR3 with Minilite style wheels from Moss, the vibration problem went completely away, even tho' I used the same Kumho tires. (And I'd spent over $250 on trying to get my original wheels "straightened".)
View attachment 50036
Tom M.
I have seen a lot of bent tr3 wheels and watch a guy bend one of mine. The tier machine he had would catch the rim twice when it came up. The machine had this second ring that would come up at the same time when he pushed on the air. I guess he needed to move something on the machine to stop the other wheel separator deal from coming up, maybe it was for 13 or 14 wheels or something, but I was mayor bummed, and it bent the wheel right in the center nd I junked it.
Years later I meet this old timer at a tier shop who simple smashed the center webbing with a BFH. The other young guys were stuck on the balancer because the wheel need so much weight. Basically the older guy said these little wheels are nothing and not that strong. He moved the center webbing fairly easily with BFH; I took it as evidence we live in a through away society with the newer generation, and over the years have fixed a lot of wheels.
steve
Years later I meet this old timer at a tier shop who simple smashed the center webbing with a BFH. The other young guys were stuck on the balancer because the wheel need so much weight. Basically the older guy said these little wheels are nothing and not that strong. He moved the center webbing fairly easily with BFH; I took it as evidence we live in a through away society with the newer generation, and over the years have fixed a lot of wheels.
steve
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