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Thread: Splined Hubs

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    Jedi Hopeful aero3113's Avatar
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    Splined Hubs

    I'm looking to convert my bolt on wheel hubs (ford rear) to splined hubs. Are there any advantages or disadvantages between coars and fine threads for the knock off?

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    Yoda
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    Re: Splined Hubs

    I have fine on a BN2, and coarse on a BJ8. It's easier and quicker to remove and replace the coarse-threaded knockoffs.

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    Yoda John Turney's Avatar
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    Re: Splined Hubs

    IIRC, when the coarse ones came out they were stronger, but all replacement hubs are the same now.
    John, BN4

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    Jedi Hopeful Lotuswins's Avatar
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    Re: Splined Hubs

    From an engineering standpoint, the finer threads will give more clamping force for a given torque, however, the coarser threads are better with softer materials as you have more surface area to spread the stresses over. Since the knockoffs are brass I would opt for the coarse threads.
    Jerry Rude
    BJ8 - Finally driving and sorting the car...what fun!
    Lotus Europa TCS 'Guenhwyvar'

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    Jedi Hopeful aero3113's Avatar
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    Re: Splined Hubs

    Are Triumph rear hubs the same as Healey hubs? Are the wheels interchangeable between cars?

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    Yoda Randy Forbes's Avatar
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    Re: Splined Hubs

    The switch to coarse threads, in regards to the Healey line, came about at the same time the BJ8 got different calipers, rotors, reduced diameter front stub-axles and smaller outer wheel bearings.

    I guess someone decided the trade off was worth it__but were they an engineer or an accountant...?


    I'm not aware of splined adapters cracking/breaking because of a too thin cross-section, only of the splines themselves wearing down, so the increased thickness__required for the coarse threads__seems unwarranted. But I've been wrong before...

    If your front splines are fine-thread, it makes sense (to me at least) that the rears should be too. It's inconceivable that any of us would ever mix up a fine for a coarse threaded knock-off, but I'll bet someone, somewhere has done it, and what with having a BFH in their other hand, might've even gotten some traction with it!

    I believe most Triumphs had four (4) lug rear axle flanges (not sure if the bolt-circle diameter was the same as a BN1 though) so I wouldn't go messing around swapping TR parts to the Healey. As for the wheels themselves, yes, the spline-drive hubs will interchange, as I used 72-spoke TR6 wheels on my drum-braked BN6 for many years.
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    Yoda John Turney's Avatar
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    Re: Splined Hubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Forbes View Post
    ...
    I'm not aware of splined adapters cracking/breaking because of a too thin cross-section, only of the splines themselves wearing down, so the increased thickness__required for the coarse threads__seems unwarranted. But I've been wrong before...
    .
    That happened to the Works Rally cars, not in normal driving.
    John, BN4

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    Yoda Randy Forbes's Avatar
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    Re: Splined Hubs

    Quote Originally Posted by John Turney View Post
    That happened to the Works Rally cars, not in normal driving.
    I must've missed the memo

    I'm certainly not doubting you, but I've read (and own) just about every book ever written on the Healey Marque and its exploits, but that escapes my memory. Ah, but I've slept since then, so my memory isn't trustworthy!
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    Jedi Hopeful aero3113's Avatar
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    Re: Splined Hubs

    I'm getting close to finally getting all of my parts to convert to splined hubs. Now my question is about the shims and spacers. The bolt on hubs that were on the car had neither? Are they necessary? They just had the washer and nut, like an American car.

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    Yoda John Turney's Avatar
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    Re: Splined Hubs

    Quote Originally Posted by aero3113 View Post
    I'm getting close to finally getting all of my parts to convert to splined hubs. Now my question is about the shims and spacers. The bolt on hubs that were on the car had neither? Are they necessary? They just had the washer and nut, like an American car.
    Not necessary.
    John, BN4

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    Darth Vader steveg's Avatar
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    Re: Splined Hubs

    Quote Originally Posted by John Turney View Post
    Not necessary.
    John - if you're referring to the distance piece and shims on the front axles, that's a controversial statement. Many would disagree.
    Steve Gerow
    Altadena, CA, USA
    Maker of most complete Big Healey rear disc kit
    Check out my galleries:
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    Yoda
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    Re: Splined Hubs

    Quote Originally Posted by steveg View Post
    John - if you're referring to the distance piece and shims on the front axles, that's a controversial statement. Many would disagree.
    Right up there with 'which oil' and 'which tires.' I just installed new rotors and bearings in my BJ8, and the following occurred to me:

    This 'argument' usually centers around whether or not the distance piece reinforces the stub axle. Whether this is true or not--I suspect it is--is secondary; the main/real reason for the spacer is to anchor the inner races of the bearings and the spacer upon which the seal rides. The bearings are a tight fit--I thought for a minute or two that mine were the wrong size--but not so tight as to prevent them from turning on the axle (you'd have to pound them on). They may only turn slowly, and may not necessarily become damaged over the limited usage most of our cars get, but they could turn, and the seal spacer is a fairly loose fit and the drag from the seal could cause it to turn. I know from experience that the turning force on the bearings is significant; once, I either failed to torque the big nut adequately, or had a defective part, but the thick washer with the inner tab that fits in the slot in the axle rotated, resulting in a frightening screeching noise when I had just started a long road trip with my son. I kept driving, the washer got wedged to a stop--the tab on the washer was completely sheared off--and we continued the trip, but I've never forgotten that lesson.

    Steve, you've been on point about the gaskets for the rear hubs from Moss being too thick to allow the outer spacer to adequately clamp the bearing. I believe the spacer on the front axles serves the same purpose; i.e. to keep bearings from turning on the axle (this is why the recommended torque setting is a relatively robust 40-70 lb-ft). The shims, of course, are there to set proper preload on the bearings and must be installed correctly.

    And, I'll fall back on the old saw: do you think the bean counters at BMC would have allowed the extra few quid to be spent on the spacers and shims if they weren't absolutely necessary?

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    Darth Vader steveg's Avatar
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    Re: Splined Hubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Spidell View Post
    ....
    And, I'll fall back on the old saw: do you think the bean counters at BMC would have allowed the extra few quid to be spent on the spacers and shims if they weren't absolutely necessary?
    This is the absolute crux of the matter: that people for whom this was their business actually knew more than hobbyists like us. I include myself!

    I would argue that we should do it their way unless conclusively proven otherwise.
    Steve Gerow
    Altadena, CA, USA
    Maker of most complete Big Healey rear disc kit
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    Yoda HealeyRick's Avatar
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    Re: Splined Hubs

    I agree with Steve and Bob, just use the shims and distance piece. The professional engineers designed it that way and why take a chance? Here's a good video on how to set up the bearing shims:

    Rick

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    Re: Splined Hubs

    Great find on the video Rick! I've heard both sides, to use and not to use. I decided to use them. I ordered the spacers from AH spares along with 2 of each size shim. Hopefully that's all I'll need! I was able to catch them before they shipped my new Everflex hood and side curtains (supposed to ship tomorrow). I placed that order in August!

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    Yoda
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    Re: Splined Hubs

    Couple things on the video (I actually RTFM'd the shop manual, for once, before I did mine): 1) the manual, IIRC, says to set up the front end to 'remove end float' (I didn't see '0.002-0.003",' but I've heard it elsewhere and said it myself), 2) the manual gave a spec for preload on the bearings*, something like a few inch-lbs of torque to turn the hub--like you would set up a rear-end pinion gear--not 'spin freely,' and 3) I cringed when he spun the hub with dry bearings; I've always heard that's a no-no.

    *I didn't set preload with a torque wrench, just added/removed shims until end float was undetectable, and the hub--minus the seal and with just a little light oil on the bearings--spun with just a smidgen of resistance when fully torqued down. I've got a couple hundred miles on them already; I'm assuming that if I'd done anything seriously wrong I'd know by now. Also, I used this stuff on the bearings:

    https://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=82

    'Old school dino' bearing grease has never caused me any problems--my old bearings and races were pitted and gouged, but I went too many miles without repacking--but this stuff just 'feels' better. I'm not a shill for Redline (honest!) but I'm sold on synthetics, except for engines, where I think for our old cars it's more important to change it frequently, and it's just too dang expensive and sometimes hard to contain.

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    Yoda John Turney's Avatar
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    Re: Splined Hubs

    Quote Originally Posted by steveg View Post
    John - if you're referring to the distance piece and shims on the front axles, that's a controversial statement. Many would disagree.
    I was thinking (I know - dangerous) based on the original post, we were talking about the rear axle.
    John, BN4

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    Jedi Hopeful aero3113's Avatar
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    Re: Splined Hubs

    I just came across these two videos, figured I’ll post them here.

    https://youtu.be/NIAfepR5VbM

    https://youtu.be/-558I_dqDmc

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