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TR2/3/3A Fan Extension Removal

Swoz

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Hello All,
I recently purchased my first Triumph TR3. It is a 1958. The PO has removed the mechanical fan, however the extension and the rest of the parts are still in place making the installation of a quality electric fan difficult. It has a new "wizard" aluminum radiator and the car was recently restored and has extremely good paint. The existing electric fan seems inadequate at idle since the temp slowly creeps up to 220 degrees Fahrenheit while sitting at traffic lights. As soon as the car is in motion and doing 30 mph or more the temp comes right down to 175 or so. I have the proper original style thermostat that is functioning properly and the water pump is a new upgraded 6 vane type. The car has the radiator shroud properly installed and again, it functions great at speed. The 10" puller electric fan installed is thermostatically controlled and kicking on at around 190 degrees and all is well there. I'm puzzled as why the temp creeps up at idle and the only conclusion I can come to is the fan is not adequate. That being said, I can't increase the electric fan size without removing the mechanical fan extension assembly. Is there a way to get this fan extension off without removing the radiator? Even if I have to cut the crank handle bolt to get it out.... is it doable this way? Thanks for any input/thoughts on the overheating at idle and removal of the fan extension assembly ...... Swoz
 

CJD

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The extension also holds the pulley for the water pump and gen/alternator, And the inside provides the sealing surface for the front crank seal.

The direct answer to your question would be "only if it is abnormally loose" once the center bolt is loosened. Someone else may have a trick to do it, like loosening and tilting the radiator, but I know no easy way.
 

TR4nut

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What John said, and also it would indeed be abnormal for it to be loose- I've always needed a puller for it.

In the garage can you test your theory of the fan by putting a box fan in front of the car and trying to push more air through? If it cools down it would suggest your fan is not up to snuff, but if it doesn't do anything it might point to low idle speed circulation efficiency. I made that last phrase up to say maybe your water pump doesn't work well at low speed.
 
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Swoz

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Got you. Okay. Because I'm uncertain how that lower pulley assembly and extension are assembled. I'm confused. My thought was to loosen the pulley center bolt and then create enough slack to get a saw blade in to cut the bolt as I remove it in pieces in an effort to not move the radiator. I'm thinking thinking that I can then remove the small bolts that attach the extension to the crank pulley. Then reinstall a shorter crank pulley bolt to hold the pulley in place. Am I missing how this is assembled as to this being possible? My next plan was to prove the theory with a fan blowing in the front as you stated. Yes. I'm going to try that in the next week or so. I see some really effective electric fans and I do want it on as a puller and not a pusher but I guess I could install a pusher, which would eliminate having to remove the fan extension piece. I prefer a puller to a pusher as I dont want to block the front of the radiator and take away from what is now working so well.
 

TR4nut

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Sorry your comment makes sense- if you can cut the bolt, and remove the small bolts holding the extension to the hub then yes the extension will be free. I was thinking you had to pull the hub.
 
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Swoz

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Right! My plan would be to leave the hub on and just get the center bolt and extension off. Then use a shorter bolt to go into the crankshaft to do the job of holding the hub/crank pulley in place. I'm very familiar with the Austin Healey's , but the TR 3 is new to me. It does run well and is quite a blast to drive. Thanks Randy and John for your input.
 

TR3driver

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I've done it, but I would not recommend it. Just bite the bullet and pull the apron.

FWIW I run a 12" Hayden and it works well for me even in 115F heat. I've got it controlled so it comes on when the gauge needle just starts to touch the '5' in 185, and I've never seen it go high enough to clear the '5'.
But obviously I run a modern thermostat. You'll never see that kind of control with the original aneroid type.
 

TR3driver

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Unless it sits farther forward than stock, you're probably going to have to take the radiator loose and move it forward. That's what I did, even though the bolt itself fit through the crank hole.

The easy (I think) alternative would be to just cut through extension and bolt together. Drastic, but shouldn't take more than 10 minutes or so (with an angle grinder & cutoff blade), and no chance of damaging the radiator while trying to cut in that tiny gap between the fan flange and the radiator fins.
 

TR3driver

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I'll mention this "just because": There is some evidence that the original fan helps dampen vibration in the crankshaft, and prolong its life.
I didn't believe that, and I've covered a bunch of miles with no mechanical fan, no dampener, and no crankshaft ills.

That all came to an end a couple of months ago. My TR3 crank is now broken through the front web.

Since that should be about the lightest loading (only torque to turn the cam etc), I suspect that running without a fan or dampener played a role. Can't prove it obviously, but for sure the replacement will have a dampener.
 

DavidApp

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Have you thought about adding a switch so you can turn the fan on manually when at idle or stopped at traffic lights. Or lower the fan thermostat setting.

David
 
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Swoz

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All great thoughts. Thanks to all for a number of things to consider. No perfect answer, all with some pro's and cons. I'm actually thinking of taking the apron off. Again, thanks to all the replies.... Tony
 

CJD

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Your plan may work, but the one issue I see is that the pulley bolts go back to front, and they have a shoulder. So, they cannot be removed without pulling the hub, as they hit the timing cover before pulling out...and then the shoulders may not retighten the pulley without the thickness of the hub. You can probably figure out a way...but you may be adding as much extra work in the end as if you just pull the apron.
 

TR3driver

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Sorry, I forgot to mention that. John is exactly right about the bolts.

One way around that is to make some short spacers to fit over the bolt shanks. You'll need something there anyway as the hub has a lip on it.

A much better solution is to,fit a proper fan eliminator that goes over the six small bolts and also provides a proper seat for the new big bolt through the center.

It is important that the center bolt clamps against the hub, as that is also what clamps the timing gear in place. Although they are both keyed to the crank, and fairly tight fits, that isn't enough. Without being clamped, they may be able to move just a bit and eventually work loose.

By the time I discovered the problem, the keyway in the hub was 3/4" wide! The bolt and big flat washer I had used were still tight, but the washer had pulled up mostly against the end of the crankshaft. The hub felt tight when I first put it together, but obviously wasn't.

ISTR Rick Patton offers a nice fan eliminator piece.
https://www.pattonmachine.com/Fan-Eliminator-Kit.htm
 

TR3driver

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It's also not that hard to go ahead and pull the hub once the extension is out of the way. Find a suitable bolt (5/8nf IIRC) for the forcing screw to bear on.

Might not be a bad time to check the timing chain tensioner if the engine has a lot of miles. Or the seal. It's all a lot easier with the apron out of the way but can be done working up through that little space between the frame rails and radiator. I didn't go as far as changing the timing set, but I believe it is possible if you are masochist enough :smile:
 

sp53

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If it was me, I would get one of those new fans from Macy’s garage; they are very similar to the old stock Tropical fan that is very difficult to find. Plus they are designed special for a Tr3 and your problem. That way you will not need to use extra power from your system and not have to worry about the fan falling. I was lucky enough to get a tropical fan on a parts I bought 40 years ago, but before that I had engine heating problems. Anyways, I do not see an easy way of doing any cutting in there without a big headache and possible damage to the radiator, the oil seal, and metal going place that is not cool.
steve
 
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Swoz

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All,
I was able to get a hold of an original mechanical fan and with the Moss fan install parts, I installed the original fan back on the crank pulley extension. Car runs cool at any speed above 25mph, but again temps where creeping up if idling too long. I then installed my small electric fan as a pusher in front of the radiator and I now there are no issues even at all, even at long stop lights. No onto problem number two.....oil leaks.


I have a significant oil leak at the front and rear of the left side of the engine oil pan while the engine is running only. After carefully investigating this for a number of days on a lift, I can't seem to pinpoint the leak. It appears to be originating above the oil pan and I see it coming from between the front motor plate and the block. Is there an oil gallery plug under that plate that could be leaking? I see the engine has a plug in the front and rear and it looks like exactly where this oil could be originating from. YIKES!!! Is this a known issue with these engines? I would hate to think of what needs to go into solving this leak if its that end gallery plug. Any thoughts would be helpful. Thanks.... Tony
 
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