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Bob_Spidell

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Finally got my rebuilt engine in my BJ8 and started this weekend. At first, it ran rough and backfired, but we spotted a secondary ignition lead shorting out--which probably caused the backfiring--and the timing was inexplicably set way retarded and once that was corrected it runs like the proverbial Swiss watch. Based on my scientific analysis--feeling the exhaust pulses at the tailpipe--this engine is making big bangs so the compression should be excellent (I'm hoping for 160psi on all 6 or better). But--there's always a 'but'--my starter seems to have become impotent as far as cranking the engine when (both are) hot. AFAIK the starter is original and not rebuilt and has nearly 200K miles on it so a rebuild is likely in order but are our old Lucas starters up to motivating a fresh engine with good compression? I really don't want to go with a gear reduction starter, but if the old Lucas whiffs what else can I do?
 

PHulst

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How old are your battery and ground cables?

If original, you might be surprised how much aging can affect them. New high quality cables can make a world of difference in a vintage car. There are some companies out there that make custom larger-gauge cables at very good prices.

Just a thought
 
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Bob_Spidell

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How old are your battery and ground cables?

If original, you might be surprised how much aging can affect them. New high quality cables can make a world of difference in a vintage car. There are some companies out there that make custom larger-gauge cables at very good prices.

Just a thought

And a good thought it is. In fact, the guy who would be rebuilding the starter--Mike Martinez at Star Auto Electric--said the same thing (of course, he makes the cables too). Plus, he said about 90% of batteries are now made in Mexico and they are, basically, crap (not good for much more than 2 years if that). The starter worked OK before the rebuild, but the engine was 'soft,' only 60psi compression in one cylinder and only 130 give-or-take in the other 5. I'll be load testing the battery--which is only a couple years old and, I think, made in the USA--and the cables will be on the radar as well.

As reference, we built new battery cables for our BN2 using 00 welding cable, with soldered terminals, and, of course, the run from batteries to starter is shorter and still the stater labors to turn it over (we do have 160+psi in all 4 in that car). We thought this car had starter problems until my dad accidentally shorted out the batteries and we had to buy new ones which 'solved' that problem.

Mike recommends this brand of battery: odysseybattery.com Anybody use them?
 

Rob Glasgow

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Why are you adverse to a gear reduction starter? They certainly don't weigh as much as the Lucas, or look or sound the same but the GR starters will certainly spin the motor. I switched last year and wouldn't go back.
 
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Bob_Spidell

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I want to keep the car as stock as possible. Others report the original starters work on (relatively) high compression engines if they're in good nick.
 

4tecdog

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I have replaced the original battery for an odyssey and a gear reduction starter don't need fuel now runs just like a hybrid :congratulatory:
 

Healey Nut

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Bob your not going to like this but , even if you do "rebuild" the starter its not going to have the cahonies to turn the engine fast enough . A rebuild will just take it apart , clean it , put new bearings in , new bushings maybe skim the armature .
Problem is its like us as we get older we get weaker and slower , the armature/ windings are now weak .
Bite the bullet accept reality and put a GR starter on it and your starting worries will be forgotten .
I had the same issue when I rebuilt my 67 and they did put a whole new armature in the starter as the brush run surface was to worn out to skim it .
It still didnt have any cahonies to turn it fast enough to start , put a GR starter on it and she spins so fast its not funny and fired up like a champ .

The other bonus is you will probably pay less for a GR starter than a rebuild . They can be had on flea bay for around 130$us
https://www.ebay.com/itm/400292402891?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
 

red57

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Bob, Seems like I may be an outlier here but I have never had anything but a stock starter. Not saying that the gear reduction starters aren't good but if you think about it, how many years and how many cars were started with stock starters before the GR starters were available? I've had nearly 10:1 CR and over 170 compression readings and never, not once, had a problem with starting as long as the cables, connections and battery are good, in fact I have been using the same starter for the last 20 years through several engine rebuilds. A good rebuilt starter with a good armature and clean commutator should do fine - just another opinion...
Dave
 

Keoke

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A rebuild will just take it apart , clean it , put new bearings in , new bushings maybe skim the armature .

Prolly all it needs.

Thats what I did to mine enons ago works great.
 

Keoke

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odysseybattery.com Anybody use them?---They are OK but-$$$$$$

Here is an alternative at a lower price

Bosh S5 Premium Power

CCA=800
Reserve Capacity 115A

Construction AGM Maintenance free

Cost Max ~ $102,00
 
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Bob_Spidell

Bob_Spidell

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Thanks for the tip, Keoke, but the Bosch site doesn't show a battery for Healeys (I've always bought Group 24--getting harder to find).

FWIW, Star, I believe, replaces the windings as part of a rebuild (at least, they do for generators).
 

Keoke

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PHulst

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The Duralast Platinum is available at AutoZone, and is one of the few batteries that is 1) Absorbent Glass Mat (same as Optima & Odyssey) and 2) Made in the USA. After looking around 2y ago I installed one in my 2008 Corvette when the original battery went bad.

My 59 Healey currently has an Optima in it, installed by the prior owner, and I think it's on its last legs after 13 years. Hopefully I can use it to start the car one time this spring in order to drive it to my new house. The AGM in my 72 Corvette lasted 11-12 years so I thought I'd try and stay with the latest technology in the 08.
 

bob hughes

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Bob

I suffered something similar to you after my rebuild, the starter helix was jamming up. In the end I resorted to a reduction gear replacement and have not looked back.
Mind you I have a feeling that some of the problems were due to timing, the dizzy needed a new star spring washer, but hey ho the new starter came first and the dizzy was sorted after.

:cheers:

Bob
 
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I've gone to a GR starter for my 3000, at first it would not fit. Didn't realize you had sometimes reset position but workes like a charm. My original starter worked okay but I like how the GR spins it over so much faster. I have one to put on the XKE but its alittle harder to get too to install.
Marv
 

RAC68

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Hi Bob,

Although I had intended to install a GR starter a while back, circumstance held me up from the GR acquisition and remain using my original starter (rebuilt in 1989) with the original 4 gauge battery cable and a 10 year old Optima Red Top Battery with NO Problems whatsoever.

An interesting point: I switched from Valvoline 20W50 Synthetic Oil to Mobile 1 15W50 a year ago and found the Mobile to allow the engine to spin much faster during cold starts. Yes, there is a difference between the 20W of the Valvoline synthetic and 15W of Mobile 1 synthetic oils, but I did not expect such a dramatic difference in the starter's cranking speeds. Additionally, the Mobile 1 is quite a bit lower in price and, as I understand, has ZDDP.

Bob, when testing my compression a while ago, my low reading was 162 PSI and my highest was 172 PSI. Assuming this compression hasn't changed dramatically, your raised compression shouldn't show any significant difference. However, don't misunderstand, though I am happy with the original starter's cranking speed NOW, I would expect the GR Starter to crank much faster at a much lower amperage draw.

So, the choice is up to you.

All the best,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
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why

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My two non original significant components, as opposed to nuts and bolts etc. are the spin-on oil filter converter and gear reduction starter, having saved original bits and in an hour or two can be put back to original. As an owner they have both made my life considerably easier.
Jay '63 3000 P.S. oops forgot the grose jets, same outcome.
 

John Turney

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AGM batteries have two advantages: They don't self-discharge as quickly as wet cells, and they don't spill if you roll your Healey. If you roll your Healey, battery acid spills are the least of your worries. I use Costco batteries and they are just fine.
 

Keoke

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AGM batteries have two advantages: They don't self-discharge as quickly as wet cells, and they don't spill if you roll your Healey. If you roll your Healey, battery acid spills are the least of your worries. I use Costco batteries and they are just fine.

Vellie good point--ROFL
devilgrin.gif
 
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