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TR4/4A A simple solution for separating axle and hub.

HAWAIICJ

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I have found a solution for separating the stubborn live axle rear hub and tapered axle shafts. I know most of us have wondered how to remove the stuck tapered hub after 50+ years without damage to the hub or axle. I've searched and looked into all the possibilities from machining a hub fixture with a forcing screw to sending the assembly out to have someone behind a curtain magically separate the assembly without damage. I don't have a machine shop around here (west of the Washington metro area) that would make one without great expense. I also like finding solutions to mechanical problems myself.

Ok, this is how I did it, The parts you need are as follows

1 x Grade 2H steel nut, 1-7/8" x 8 tpi, McMaster-Carr # 90521A037 $10.59
1 x Grade 5 steel bolt, 1-1/2" x 6 tpi, 5" long McMaster-Carr # 91283A452 $12.43
1 x Grade 8 steel nut, 1-1/2" x 6 tpi, McMaster-Carr # 90499A041 $4.43
1 x Multipurpose 110 copper bar 1/4" x 1-1/2" x 6" McMaster-Carr # 8964K851 $11.55

Center the 2 nuts on top of each other and weld them together, I held them together with the bolt during the weld. I had the heat on the mig turned way up and the nut assy took about 45min to cool off enough to move but still to hot to handle by hand.

I then took and cut the copper bar to produce a 1-1/2" square piece and then trimmed the corners to fit loosely into the large nut, this will be what protects the end of the axle from damage during the force applied by the bolt (forcing screw). Lubricate the end of the forcing screw (bolt), bolt threads and the threads of the small nut with lithium grease.

Obtain the axle assy you are separating, remove the cotter pin, loosen the nut and remove the washer then reinstall the nut flush with the end of the axle.

Place the axle assy vertically, place the copper disc on the end of the axle, thread the nut assy with the large nut threading onto the external threads of the hub. The nut should thread on until tight, there will be a 3/16" gap between the bottom of the nut and the 1st step of the hub. Install the forcing screw into the small nut and secure hand tight. I then reset the axle puller assy with the large nut in the vise and used a 2-1/4" x 3/4" drive impact socket (Sunnex obtained from Amazon $23.00) with a 1/2"-3/4" adapter and a 1/2" air impact wrench. I purchased a 3/4" earthquake xt from HF but is is on backorder!

I tightened the bolt as tight as possible and then hit the end of the forcing screw with a large hammer, the 2nd hit had a tone change, I then further tightened and the forcing screw turned in 1/2 a turn and the axle was loose in the hub. I repeated this procedure 3 times with the same success, on each axle assy. The first assy had a damaged hub and was sacrificial, I purchased it from Ebay for the axle shaft only, one of the originals has a damaged inner seal surface.

Next up is to replace the seals and bearings reassemble!

I might just be driving this by spring! :encouragement:
 

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OP
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HAWAIICJ

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Thanks, I have learned many different ways to fix these LBC's from many people here and want to it pay it forward!

This tool is heavy, so I don't know what shipping cost would be, but I want to make it available to others that need to separate the hubs. If you are in the DC metro area give me a PM!
 

TomMull

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Very well done indeed. I wonder if the Churchill tool has a provision to protect the end of the axle stub like this one does? I don't think my welder is up to the task but I think I could help it out by pre-heating the pieces oxy-actylene first. Finally, perhaps making this tool from a billet with a small lathe would make a nice weekend project.
Tom
 

Bruce100

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Is the TR4 hub the same as a TR3? THis would work on a TR3? By the way, I spoke with an engineer friend of mine who is also a British Car nut, and he said that the fillet should be 1/4".
 

charleyf

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Yes, the TR3 and TR 4 axle hubs are the same as far as the way they fit together on the axle.
Charley
 

CJD

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Beautiful! I always stared dumbly at those threads on the hub, but figured there was no way to match the pattern. Never dreamed the solution was a nut right off the supply shelf!
 

KVH

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Rather awesome. I have my axles off the car, but my shop said that if there wasn't anything wrong with them, I ought to just pack grease back in and reinstall them. That makes sense to me, but I can't tell if I'd really be packing the grease in adequately since the bearing is only partly exposed with the hub still on. I may buy those McMaster pieces. It makes me wonder, though, why my axle shop gave up trying to get the hubs apart when I first brought them in a while back. They said that any more pressure and they were worried something would break or distort.
 

TR3driver

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The Churchill tool shown in the manuals is a "top hat" that attaches by the studs. It doesn't use those threads.

I believe the problem (after trying a few designs myself) is that most shops just stick the flange in the press and support behind the flange. The force causes the hub to distort slightly and grip the shaft tighter, which of course requires more force and so on. Pulling on the studs does the same thing, but the "brim" of the top hat puller helps reduce the distortion.

Good to see someone finally tried those threads, and it worked. Thanks! That was going to be my next step, but I lost interest when my modified press plates did the job.

FWIW, my top hat puller worked great for the first few I tried. For the last one, I wound up literally standing on a 6ft cheater bar, which ruined the puller but didn't get the hub off. Similar results with the hammer puller (originally described in the Stag forum) I made before that. (I now have a 20 lb BFH that I'll probably never use again.)
My point is that there seems to be a lot of variation from hub to hub, possibly depending on how hard the car has been driven.
 

mctriumph

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Silly me I just press the thing out with a little heat added at the right moment, but
it comes off like a rifle shot when it breaks loose.
MD
 

charleyf

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Actually it is not "silly you" it is lucky you. The machine shop that worked on one of my axles said they tried all the pressure their press had and it did not budge. Then they heated it to VERY VERY HOT before it came off like the rifle shot. Potential effects are distortion of the axle and metal fatigue with a lot of heat. This method just looks safer.
Charley
 

tallguylittlecar

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Just wanted to say that I ordered the large nut from McMaster, I was able to source an 1 1/2 in bolt and nut from a friend who works on large equipment. I got was able to get the 2 in socket from tractor supply. I live near the New Jersey McMaster so it was a quick drive to to pick up in person. Had it welded together by mid morning and the hubs were off by lunch. Worked great! thanks for the inspiration. If anyone lives in the Yardley/bucks county area of PA and wants to remove there TR3/TR4 hubs let me know.
 

CJD

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My TR 2 has the special hubs with the integrated wire wheel adapters...so now I'll have to see if there is a standard nut that will fit the knock off thread pattern!?!
 

TomMull

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My TR 2 has the special hubs with the integrated wire wheel adapters...so now I'll have to see if there is a standard nut that will fit the knock off thread pattern!?!

I think you'll need 2, l & r. I wonder if you could use some old spinners? Also looks like the spline area is not nearly as strong as the hub on the newer type hubs.
Tom
 
OP
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HAWAIICJ

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Just wanted to say that I ordered the large nut from McMaster, I was able to source an 1 1/2 in bolt and nut from a friend who works on large equipment. I got was able to get the 2 in socket from tractor supply. I live near the New Jersey McMaster so it was a quick drive to to pick up in person. Had it welded together by mid morning and the hubs were off by lunch. Worked great! thanks for the inspiration. If anyone lives in the Yardley/bucks county area of PA and wants to remove there TR3/TR4 hubs let me know.

That's awesome!
 

KVH

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Here's my question. Can I just leave the hubs on the axle and squeeze enough grease back into the bearings that I'm safe knowing that some future failure won't be the grease. My axles and hubs as a unit are removed from the differential tubes and ready to put back in. The advice I've had is that if the axles and hubs seemed fine when the car was running, the bearings may be just fine, too, so just grease them back up and put the axles and hubs back in and don't make a big job out of a small one. Anyone tend to agree, or might I fail to get the grease packed in as needed?
 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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Here's my question. Can I just leave the hubs on the axle and squeeze enough grease back into the bearings that I'm safe knowing that some future failure won't be the grease. My axles and hubs as a unit are removed from the differential tubes and ready to put back in. The advice I've had is that if the axles and hubs seemed fine when the car was running, the bearings may be just fine, too, so just grease them back up and put the axles and hubs back in and don't make a big job out of a small one. Anyone tend to agree, or might I fail to get the grease packed in as needed?
I agree; that's what I've always done.

Often, folks see the brakes being contaminated by gear oil from the axle and think they have to replace the outer seal in the bearing housing. But the oil is held by the inner seal in the axle tube (easy to replace). And if you do have grease on the brakes, it's usually from over-greasing the bearing.
 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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My TR 2 has the special hubs with the integrated wire wheel adapters...so now I'll have to see if there is a standard nut that will fit the knock off thread pattern!?!
That means you also have the early axle, which didn't use a locking taper behind the hubs. It's still a light press fit, but not tapered and they should come off much easier than the later ones do. I might try a bearing separator behind the hub, if you have a forcing screw long enough to reach the end of the axle. (Probably need some all-thread to link the halves of the puller together.)

Just for amusement value, here's the lash-up I used on Mom's tractor last summer
 
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