TR4/4A Car Will Not Start

I have a 1962 TR4 that will not start.

I believe it might be due to a need to replace the points and condenser. Is there a way to verify?

Here is some history on the car. The engine was completely rebuilt about 10 years ago. The car has always started even after sitting for a few months.

Last time I started and drove the car about 2 months ago, it was more difficult to get started vs anytime prior.

The compression should be find based on rebuild. Also, I rebuilt the SU carburetors last year.

I did not check plugs after trying to start the car earlier today to see if they were wet with gas. I did check the fuel pump float bowl and used the primer lever to get gas to the SU's before trying to start. I also pulled the air cleaners off and noticed the SU carbs were "wet" with gas.

I need to replace the points and condenser anyways as they are 10 years old. I will also need to check and verify there is a spark coming from the plugs by removing and testing.

Anything else I can do to isolate the problem? I believe the issue is with the lack of spark due to points and condenser but not sure.. I have not had to deal with my car not starting in a number of years so trying to remember the best approach to isolate and fix the issue. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve

Steve, take the top of the distributor off and crank the car, if you have no spark between the points, run a screwdriver between the contacts and open and close them. If still no spark, give them a quick sand or a small file. The points will oxidize on these cars and cause a no contact.
That should get you some spark or let you know to start looking someplace else.

Wayne

I agree with Wayne, check the points first. Just remember when using the screwdriver to open and close the points, use the tip of the blade to lift the insulating heel block off the dizzy cam. Don't use the screwdriver between the tips of the points.

Also, the air filters being wet with fuel is not necessarily a good thing. While it does mean fuel is getting into and through the carbs, it can also mean that the float valves are stuck open.

Wayne,

Thanks for the recommendation. I will follow what you have proposed regarding the points. It has been so long since I had to check this, that I forgot how to best approach. I will have to check this weekend most likely.

Steve

trrdster2000 said:

Steve, take the top of the distributor off and crank the car, if you have no spark between the points, run a screwdriver between the contacts and open and close them. If still no spark, give them a quick sand or a small file. The points will oxidize on these cars and cause a no contact.
That should get you some spark or let you know to start looking someplace else.

Wayne

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Doug, THanks for your response. Much appreciated. Regarding the carbs, my description was not clear. I believe the carbs are getting fuel as they should. The air filter was not wet with gas. I took the air cleaner off to inspect where the jet and the jet needle are working. This area had a light coating of fuel so I believe it is working as it should.

Based on the systems I am seeing, I believe the issue is due to not getting spark. My TR4 would also start and fire up. Now the motor just turns over with no signs of getting close to trying to run.

dklawson said:

I agree with Wayne, check the points first. Just remember when using the screwdriver to open and close the points, use the tip of the blade to lift the insulating heel block off the dizzy cam. Don't use the screwdriver between the tips of the points.

Also, the air filters being wet with fuel is not necessarily a good thing. While it does mean fuel is getting into and through the carbs, it can also mean that the float valves are stuck open.

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Any update? Are you getting spark?

I have not been able to check. Home sick with a stomach virus.

tdskip said:

Any update? Are you getting spark?

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OK - I have an update. I am not sure how well my description below will be but will give it a try.

I did pull off the distributor cap, and while the Mrs was turning over the car, used a screw driver on the surface of the distributor and points. I did see a spark. I also tried using sand paper to clean the surface of the points. I did not see a spark between the points but was able to "jump" a spark from the points to the base of the distributor. This is as I thought was suggested. Afterwards I removed a spark plug and with the ignition wire attached, had it close to the spark plug hole while touching metal, and not spark at the plug.

Planned next steps. Based on what I have done and remembering that the points and condenser are over 20 years old. I am ordering new from moss in addition to a new and what they refer to as "premium" rotor. There is a likely chance this is the issue and even if not, the points and condenser need to be replaced due to age.

I will let you know when I have an update.

Thanks again for the recommendations provided. It has been such a long time since I had to resolve a not getting spark issue (or really car not starting) and wanted to take advantage of all your info so can be focused in resolving.

Thanks again

Check the distributor cap center contact as well as for cracking

Better yet replace the cap along with the other components.
Charley

While getting a new cap can't be a bad idea, you most likely would be able to clean the rotor and cap to at least make the car want to start - probably even run ok. Make sure that the gap is correct at the points as well.

SteveBones said:

I did pull off the distributor cap, and while the Mrs was turning over the car, used a screw driver on the surface of the distributor and points. I did see a spark.

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You have combined two tests.
Test 1 would be to remove the cap and while a helper turns the engine over on the starter you watch the points to see if they are sparking.
Test 2 would be to remove the cap and with the ignition in the run position you use a screwdriver to open and close the points, again watching for spark.
You don't do these tests together. Regardless, you saw sparks at the points which says the coil is still allowing current through.

Your last test resting a spark plug on the head while cranking is indicative that there may be a problem in the high-tension circuit. My practice is to remove the plug wire from the center of the distributor cap and loosely connect it to a spark plug resting on the cylinder head. If you crank the engine and see sparking across the plug, that says the coil and the king lead are working. That suggests a problem with the cap, rotor, or remaining plug wires.

As was said above, the carbon brush in the center of the distributor cap can break or fall out rendering the cap useless. Any craze cracking or carbon tracking on the distributor cap says it probably needs replacing. There have been some low quality rotors out there that sometimes break down internally shorting the spark to ground through the distributor shaft. Presumably the rotor you bought from Moss will be the better rotors that are available from a few sources.

Good idea. I will use the distributor cap on my TR3 to try first. I will get the parts early next week and will let you know how it turns out.

charleyf said:

Better yet replace the cap along with the other components.
Charley

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I wanted to provide an update. I installed the new points, condenser, and rotor, and My TR4 is running again. It has been a while since the last time I replaced these items so I am happy that everything worked and I was able to install correctly.

One item I wanted to point out. I took off the LT unit that attaches on the rim of the distributor that has a connector for the white LT wire that connects to the coil.

I used an Ohm meter to check the electrical connection (resistance) of this LT unit wire where the white wire connects to the coil. As it turns out the reading on the Ohm meter showed high resistance. It turns out the LT connector had what I would refer to as a coating on it…….not rust but typical dirt or what ever collects on the metal surface over decades of time. So I used steel wool to clean the metal contact area, retested with zero resistance. I believe this is likely the reason why the car would not start. Anyways, my car is back on the road.

Thanks again for the help and suggestions.

Great! Always nice to get an all is well with the case update.

Post some pictures of her in the hills up there, pretty roads towards the coast.

Good idea on posting some pictures. THere are some nice back roads out where I live. I did take the TR4 out for about a 30 minute ride……I had a blast.

tdskip said:

Great! Always nice to get an all is well with the case update.

Post some pictures of her in the hills up there, pretty roads towards the coast.

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SteveBones said:

Good idea on posting some pictures. THere are some nice back roads out where I live. I did take the TR4 out for about a 30 minute ride……I had a blast.

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Pictures or clamp the camera below the front bumper before you take off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP0JPla3kNw

Admittedly crude as it was my wife's camera (natch) with few features.

Geo - Great idea with the front bumper camera location….I enjoyed watching.

Geo Hahn said:

Pictures or clamp the camera below the front bumper before you take off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP0JPla3kNw

Admittedly crude as it was my wife's camera (natch) with few features.

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Wow - really enjoyed that video. Never thought about a "bumper cam", but it sure works.

Thanks!
Tom M.