TR4/4A Deal or dud? TR4 on eBay

Your thoughts on this. Are the red flags flying?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Triumph-Ot...tr=true&hash=item27ff67023a&item=171788665402

Tom

I'm not a TR4 guy but from the photos, it looks pretty good to me....I don't really see anything that would make me run away. Yes, it needs some rust repairs and some cosmetics, but it doesn't look to daunting.

Cheers
Tush

My thoughts ? Run the ad in auction format and find out what its really worth. A non running TR4 that needs the floors replaced and looks to be full of plastic filler , is not a good basis for a restoration.

Looks pretty good. His description of the car is padded quite a bit. Where are seats? Its not a $11k car as is. $6k would be pushing it.
Marv

Might be a fun project but it looks like its a "itsabitza" car - engine and radiator I believe are 4A - which may mean the frame is 4A also. Steering wheel I think may be a Spitfire one? Inner sill replacement isn't that unusual but might mean a little more rust is lurking elsewhere. It would be good to see underbody pics.

Frame is TR4 not 4A, note the handbrake. No way would I pay $11K for this car. A body off restoration would have addressed the frame and floor issues but those still need work so I doubt that there was a frame up resto, but maybe the body had been lifted. Not a bad car overall IF the body is not full of filler but the other outside bits have been polished to look better than they actually might be. And $11K for a non-running project is WAY off the mark. I agree with Marv (and he'd know better than I), $6K absolutely top. Get it on the road and you've got something if it's all there.

Could be a good deal - but much depends on the details - none of which can be easily seen in photos (quality of body work, engine, frame, etc.

Appears to be an abandoned project -- if the seller is the one who had been working on it he should be able to fill in some gaps -- e.g. photos of stripped car, what is meant by 'engine rebuilt' etc.

Paint job did not include the engine bay which may mean a budget job, certainly not top-drawer and probably not the 'body-off restoration' that is claimed.

Dent in bonnet and also a stone chip suggest it was driven quite a bit since painting.

Front bumper sits a bit crooked (not unusual on a 4) and chrome appears thin. Possibly took a bump on the left front in the past.

Toggle switch on the right side of the nacelle got my hopes up - but no, does not appear to have overdrive.

Car is listed as a 1964 though the commission is CT18871L which (off the top of my head) sounds like a 1963 build).

I see no seats - worth finding out if he has them even if they need recovering.

The seller has zero feedback and his inexperience is evident. This is the third time around for the car on eBay, the first 2 he simply put a $13,000 price on it - no auction - and got no bids: https://www.ebay.com/sch/quini-dre/...=true&hash=item27ff67023a&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

Now he is a bit frustrated ("Come on people, wake up! Great car...") but this could work to your advantage as he also says "...Price is up for negotiation.".

Certainly worth talking to him to get an idea whom you are working with.

Twice I purchased cars on eBay sight-unseen and both have been much better that was presented. Still enjoy them both everyday. That said -- there are risks and pitfalls and it is definitely not for the faint of heart. A visit or local 3rd party inspection is the prudent way to buy.

Good luck.

Geo Hahn said:

The seller has zero feedback and his inexperience is evident. This is the third time around for the car on eBay, the first 2 he simply put a $13,000 price on it - no auction - and got no bids: https://www.ebay.com/sch/quini-dre/...=true&hash=item27ff67023a&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

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Just to emphasize the point a bit, this seller signed up less than 3 months ago, apparently for the sole purpose of selling this car.

The car clearly has some mechanical issues, like the missing master cylinders, bracket and broken studs where they were removed. The copper fuel line doesn't look good either, and what's with that bolt sticking out of one of the intake runners? As Geo said, it appears to be an abandoned project and not entirely as described. Looks to me like there is even surface rust in those chips.


So, IMO, a good project if you want to tackle the work required; but not worth anywhere near the BIN price. Personally, I dislike taking part in auctions with (undisclosed) reserve prices; but that's just me. Kind of says to me "I know I'm asking too much, so I'm not going to tell you what that is, in hopes you'll get into a bidding war." But to others, it's just good business.

And the fan is on backwards! Wonder if he had a heating problem? The floor shouldn't be patched, it needs replacing, not an easy job when the car is all together. Buying a car like that without hearing it run, going through the gears and actually driving is like buying a pig in a poke! Price, a little to high. JMHO. PJ

PAUL161 said:

Wonder if he had a heating problem?

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Speaking of which, the heater appears to be permanently disconnected as well. Probably means the core is bad.

These could be the best pictures of it too remember. What would twenty more pictures show?

This car reminds me of one of my favorite legal maxims: "The big print gives it to you- the fine print takes it away". True?

If the floors are that bad, I would guess that the inner fenders also have bunch of rust lurking behind that paint. The driver's floor and sill on that side appear to have been replaced but I note that the floor is not completely bolted in yet. So the project suspicion is likely right on. That commission number is for a late 1962. My experience with old wire wheels says that they may well be worn out and need new wheel and hubs. Unfortunately that one issue is not a cosmetic one but rather a safety one. I agree with the motor being from a later TR4 or a TR4A as the smog equipment is not found on a car with that commission number. BIN price is a seller's dream.
Charley

Brinkerhoff said:

These could be the best pictures of it too remember. What would twenty more pictures show?

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Well, just for starters, how about the rear suspension, handbrake, underside of the rocker panels, and how badly the engine, transmission and rear axle leak oil.

I used to give sellers the benefit of the doubt, until I got burned a few times. Now, I assume that if the photos don't show every inch, that is because there is something bad in the inch not shown. Last time I believed the photos, I drove 2000 miles each way, towing a trailer, only to find that the TR3B with "no rust perforations" had holes in it the size of a softball! The fender that was "off the car but ready to go back on" was off because the mounting flange was totally rusted away; but of course the photo only showed the other side. This is another one of the photos, which looks innocuous enough; but when I got there I found that it had been very carefully angled to not show the 4" hole in the front of the well.

Oh Randall, that is a beauty - I especially like the 'T R 3' in mailbox letters.

Dating and buying old Triumphs are two things I enjoyed in the past but am thankful I will (hopefully) never have to go through again.

I agree with the rest, not at 11K, but at a more reasonable price it looks like it could be a fun car to just getting running a zip around in.

I will add though that is it nice the see the Michelotti TRs getting the love in terms of attention and price. I remember when I did my my 4A in the late 80s, there were still plenty of nice TR6s around, and they had a certain cred as the "last of the hairy chested sports cars" and there were plenty of sidescreen TRs being restored, but the 4s and 4as, and even to some extent the 250 were seen as "tweener" cars, not highly valued.

Yes it is about time this unique body style is getting some respect, the market is up quite a bit from last year. They represent a completely different time than the TR3 but the real beauty is they retained the same mechanicals for the most part. I owned a nice 4A when I lived in Long Beach, Ca. twenty or so yrs. ago , it was signal red and had the really cool " Surrey top" and IRS. I think I sold it to fund a Healey or something. I was living in a garage in an alley with a couple of them for awhile....,.

I've said this before, but I always considered the TR4 and 4A the best looking TRs, stylewise. Though slab-sided like the TR5 and TR6, the body design is more integrated, especially the headlights and tail lights. The TR2/TR3 is "cute" - like a sawed-off XK 120, and the TR6 looks great from the front, especially with the front bumper off (try it some time), but the view from the rear is less attractive - and I own one. The dash in all Triumphs is much more attractive than an Austin-Healey or even an MG IM(not so humble)O. Anyone agree? Disagree?

I think the TR6 is a good looking car, very well styled, most of the magazines praised the styling when it came out. But of course the TR6s have a much more 70s ish vibe, whereas the earlier TRs are all chrome and curves and vintage sports cars feel. I remember when I got my first 4A, I thought the big tach and speedo were so much cooler than the little things I had had in my prior Sprites and MGB/GT. However, the dash in a Healey Hundred is pretty cool too-

Oh yea the Healey. I watched them go out of sight while looking for a car. Healey, TR and MG were in the running for several years before I saw a particular 4A that I liked, knowing little more than how to identify the different cars. The 4 is just kinda tuff looking. The 6 lost a lot of the appeal of the roadster for me, muscle car type. The car on ebay would have been worth watching for sale price but I would never have considered, too many cars out there to buy that one.