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View Full Version : New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys



Sparkie
07-12-2007, 06:14 PM
After being told by several "experts" that Ford never mated the T5 trans to the V6 Cologne engine, I found this to be incorrect.

It turns out that all 2005 to present Mustangs have a base engine that's the 4.0L SOHC V6 and it's a Cologne engine!! It's a piece of crap engine (with the same small oil pump as our 2.8L), but the manual transmission is the Tremec T5!!!! There's also a 5 speed automatic available (there’s one in my town available with only 330 miles for $750).

I just checked the bellhousing bolt pattern this morning at my local dismantlers hub and it is verified - the SOHC in the Mustang is a match to the plentiful 4.0L OHV engines in most Rangers (and several other vehicles) – as well as our stock 2.8L.

My transmission with bellhousing cost $750 and had only 19K miles on it. Full speed ahead with the 4.0 swap and now it will have a bulletproof 5 speed!

Sparkie
07-24-2007, 12:01 PM
Confirmed - the new Tremek 5 speed manual offered in the base 2005 to present Mustangs with the V6 and manual trans does bolt right up to our Cologne engines - 2.8L or up to the 4.0.

I'll not bore you with further details unless there's interest...

Grady
09-21-2007, 01:57 PM
I'd be interested in further details of the swap. A 5 speed would make highway cruising much less revving. Grady

mrtvr
09-22-2007, 10:46 AM
Me too, I've been waiting for an update as I would like to do it to both of my 280is.
Marshall

Sparkie
09-24-2007, 02:38 PM
The good news: The T5 definitely bolts right up to the 2.8L (and the 4.0). The gearshift will mount as far back as we want - this gearbox was made for the shift lever to be a separate mechanism that mounts between the transmission and a body (or frame) mount. This cuts down on vibration from the running gear, yet has a very tight coupling to the shift mech. I could take a picture if you'd like - saves lots of words. The trans also has a large rotating weighted output flange - again less vibration and slack in the driveline. This means a custom driveline, but nothing out of the ordinary (like a TR6 slippy/splined driveline). Though the internals are T5, Ford says they have improved shifting and feel - a must for putting such an old design into the newest Mustang. The clutch will be simple, with no linkage required. The concentric slave is right on the output shaft so only a hydraulic line adaptor is required.

The starter is in the same position but the stock 2.8L may not marry to the flywheel and bellhousing (which locates the starter); that's the one area you 2.8L guys will have to stay tuned for. I am OK because the 4.0L is identical to the Mustang's SOHC 4.0, but the 2.8L has the older flywheel bolt pattern (6 vs 8). I should know very soon when I get the flywheel.

The bad news: This is the lower priority project, likely not to start till next winter - a year off. I have the tranny, Mustang starter and working on the Mustang flywheel - there aren't too many around yet and there's not much demand for after market ones yet. I would wedge (pun intended) this in front of the TR8 engine project, but I am also swapping the 2.8L for a 4.0L with the tranny update. That's the major cause for the delay. Sorry about that. I promise to document this. I can talk and assist someone thru it if you can't wait.

Grady
09-25-2007, 01:17 PM
Sorry if this has been discussed but which 4.0 are you swapping into what? I assume not the crappy base Mustang? And is it going into a Wedge? Grady

Sparkie
09-26-2007, 09:36 AM
Yes, swapping the 2.8L for the later OHV 4.0 into an '86 280i. The most difficult part is the induction. There are few/no after market alternatives for the Ford V6. Rather than using a stock ECU, I have purchased a megasquirt kit and have it approx. 50% complete. As soon as I get a flywheel, one of the two rebuildable engines will be strapped to a test stand and fire the system up. That will enable me to get a good first-fire on the rebuilt 4.0 that will fiinally go into the wedge.

tr7andtvr
10-02-2007, 12:04 PM
Scotty, as per your advice I am about 3/4 finished with my 302 conversion. It truly does make more since then the Rover V8. This is a very easy conversion; I could do it a second time in 12-15 hrs. I am going to make up some instructions, a parts list and a diagram of the custom engine mounts. So if anyone wants to do the same they are not running blind. One of the best things about a 302 is the cheap and easy HP.

Sparkie
10-03-2007, 09:58 AM
Glad that worked out for you Andy. I figured that would be even easier than the plans I have with the 4.0 V6. Perhaps I will go that route after I figure out the flywheel setup for the T5 Tremec and the 2.8L - there would be a couple of folks interested in my tranny at that point.

Did you find a set of off the shelf block hugging headers that fit? That is the last hurtle for my setup. I will have quite a bit of time into the V6 air box and injection and then there's welding all that stainless for the exhaust... Hmmmm, as I said, maybe I should take my own advice and go V8.

tr7andtvr
10-03-2007, 10:56 AM
Headers... I can go with a set of Shorty headers, reverse sides and go up and to the front or I can use a set of cast ones from a old 289. There is a third option that I was told about that is off a 93 mustang. There is no cutting on the car, there is only modification to the existing engine mounts. I am estimating the weight gain to be only 30lbs!

Sparkie
10-03-2007, 08:11 PM
Cool. I forgot to ask about the transmission. What flavor? Shift linkage, driveline.... Guess I'd better wait for your instructions. Let me know if you want to collaborate or just a second set of eyes on the instructions. 8^)

tr7andtvr
10-05-2007, 02:08 PM
93" t-5, with no modifications.... Stock driveline no modifications. I will cut down the shifter 1 1/2 or 2". Yea, when I do the instructions I will let you help me with it, since it was your idea.

Sparkie
10-06-2007, 09:54 AM
Wow, stock driveline. You are very lucky; that's great. The late model Mustang T5's have a flange rather than slip yoke... Too many internals to change the tail shaft arrangement.

I can't claim originality for the swap, but our brainstorming together seems to have yielded a good match!

I like that idea of swapping the headers around. That will mimic some of the later TVR's. Wish I were closer to help.

Take lots of pictures for the instructions - worth a thousand words and all...

duffy
10-11-2007, 02:49 AM
Hi from England,
I own a cousin to the TVR a Rochdale Olympic (see link below)
http://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/327716#Post327716


If you would like to learn about T5 gearbox and V6 Cologne
engines try the link below.
http://fordpower.org.uk/forum/index.php?act=idx
Log on and click Engine 24V (see how 24V DOHC heads are been fitted to 4.0L blocks)
and click Transmision (for T5 setups)

My 1963 Olympic runs a Ford 2.9L 24V V6 210bhp, 150+mph and 0 to 60 in 5secs.
http://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/2441/cat/500/ppuser/6786

On the Fordpower site you will find a TVR with this engine and twin turbos mind blowing.

Kind regards
Tony

Sparkie
10-11-2007, 05:48 PM
Hey Tony,

Thanks for the forum link. Good info. I have been following the 24v conversions and what a lot of work that is! Unfortunately the heads are not available over here.

As for the T5 adaptors to our V6's, I found these as well after hours of searching. The cost, availability and quality are all risks. That is why I was so excited to find the Mustang T5 from Ford will bolt directly to the 4.0 V6. I picked up the tranny (with 19K miles) and bellhousing for less than Burton gets for just the bellhousing..

Unfortunately my last discovery is that a custom flywheel will be required for anything but the late model 4.0L engines. Sorry, but the newer 8 bolt crank pattern is required for a bolt together solution. No one is making after market flywheels for the 4.0 Mustang (yet) or you might be able to talk someone into drilling the older 6 bolt pattern. Perhaps someone will pop up in the future, like SCAT. Or a custom alloy flywheel could be easily turned.

Sparkie
11-04-2007, 10:48 AM
Oh my God! Has everyone gone daft!

Possibly good news before I bore you with the recent issues; there is hope that the Ranger flywheel will allow mating the Mustang T5 Tremec transmission to the older Cologna 6 bolt crank flange. As it turns out, I was supplied with the wrong starter from the beginning.... Leading me to get an expensive late model flywheel rather than a cheap one from a Ranger pickup.

1. Put out a web search for a 2006-2008 Mustang SOHC flywheel. Ordered one from "Quality Auto Parts" (dont ever do business with them!). Flywheel description was correct on the invoice.
2. Received flywheel (actually shipped from a sub-vendor, not "Quality" Auto)- flexplate for auto, not manual. Wrong engine/bolt pattern.
3. Called crap auto parts - took an hour to get through. I must return to MI (I am in WA state) at my expense before they send a replacement. And I would have to do the same if they screw it up again... Time for a refund. Finally received refund after filing claim with PayPal and waiting 2 weeks.
4. Ordered a new flywheel from Ford - at $30 less than the used one!! There are some great ford wholesale outfits on the web.
5. Flywheel overdue, called supplier. They incorrectly addressed the package to the wrong state.. Eventually got flywheel and it is perfect.
6. Bolt everything together and the starter isn't correct (got from the same place as the 5 speed MANUAL trans). Called the great guy at Ford for the correct part numbers. The starter was for an automatic! New starter ordered. Supplier lost the starter in transit. Finally arrived - also wrong, it was for a Ranger not a Mustang.
7. Will either order a new one from Ford or wait for the supplier to find one (none available in his yard)- and try to get a refund from these guys...

Crap!

Thanks for listening, I feel a little better now. Hope everyone has fun in their garage today - one more hour for free!!

Grady
11-05-2007, 05:23 PM
I'm glad it moving forward although I'm now completely confused as to what does and doesn't work together. Bless you for sorting out. Grady

Grady
03-08-2008, 02:15 PM
Hi Scotty - Any update on this topic? And how about some pictures. Thanks Grady

tr7andtvr
03-20-2008, 08:34 AM
A standard ford t5 from 93-94 what slave cylinder will work?

Sparkie
03-28-2008, 05:45 PM
My conversion is a Tremec 5 speed from a late model mustang. The SOHC V6 is a Cologne engine that has the same bolt pattern as the 2.8L (and the 4.0L I am putting in mine). I am using the slave that came with the tranny - an annular slave. There's no provision in the bell housing for anything else and why not use the superior design...

Grady
10-30-2008, 08:14 PM
What became of all this - do you have a running 5 speed and will it just bolt up with no fabrication, cutting, & patching? Inquiring minds still want to know!

tr7andtvr
10-31-2008, 02:33 PM
What was used for the slave cylinder?

DeltaAir423
11-02-2008, 02:31 PM
Too bad I missed this post from earlier. I was going to tell you if you need any "new" Ford parts, one of my favorite places to go is http://www.partsgalaxy.com I can't count how many times they have saved my behind when I needed a part.

Sparkie
11-18-2008, 12:35 PM
The slave cylinder is the stock annular setup on the new Mustang T5 trans. My used tranny came with it attached so I will use it!

tr7andtvr
11-23-2008, 10:47 PM
Is it a push type or a pull type? My v8 conversion is finished but I am having to "pump" into gears. Do you have anymore info on it? Make model?

Andy

Sparkie
11-27-2008, 02:41 PM
Andy,

Sorry to hear of your clutch probs. You may have an easier fix by changing the slave or master diameter. Larger on the master and/or smaller on the slave so less pedal yields more throw.

The annular slave on the Tremec is from a late model Mustang with V6, as I said, but a search of the web yielded no info on a factory stock setup. I did find an outfit that specializes on annular slaves, Dorman Clutch. Summit sells some of their stuff. They list a slave for a 2006 V6 Mustang, which would have the T5 - a late model of it; can't guarantee the bolt pattern is the same, but I would be surprised if they changed it. Or perhaps match the slave to the vehicle type that the tranny came out of.

I don't know if the stock one is a push or pull - I would assume a push but I have seen advertisements of similar looking units as both push and pull. I can tell you it mounts directly to the front snout ot the T5, just like this Dorman, with the integral throwout pointing forward and the hydrolic input toward the tranny.

I may have the same issue when I hook this up to the TVR master.... You may as well - and have to change the master even with this annular slave.

Here's a pic of the Dorman unit.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u93/scottydeane/ScreenHunter_01Nov271111-1.gif

benebob
05-04-2009, 04:00 PM
Scotty,
Do you have an update on your 4.0 conversion? I just bought a non running 280i that you have my intrest peaked about converting to a 4.0 (though I'd love to do a newer stang 4.0 SOHC and 5 speed) as they seem cheap as dirt with sub 20k on the odo. Just saw one with 200 miles for $500 complete with engine, wiring harness, computer and an auto tranny (hence why I waited.

Ben

tr7andtvr
05-04-2009, 09:29 PM
Scotty,

Didn't you think my V8 swap was easier than your 4.0 swap?


Ben,

What car did you get?

Andy

Genos2
05-04-2009, 10:23 PM
Thought I,d pass this along, camaro LS1 uses the similar slave setup& while I was working at a turbo shop(5 yrs) we did alot of these& GTO's& with alot of competition clutch setups they included a aluminum spacer that went behind the slave assembly(held in by the 2 mounting bolts) inorder for the clutch to disengage completely.It was 3/16-1/4 inch thick. Without it you had to pump the clutch to make it work fully.Also on these you had to follow OEM bleeding procedures. hope this helps cheers Genos2

Grady
02-25-2010, 12:26 AM
Thought I'd bump this up and see what the outcome was.... A good conversion with no frame cutting? Grady

Grady
02-13-2011, 11:36 AM
Another year later, another bump...

As I piece this long thread together:

Start with a 2005-2007 (or later) 4.0 V-6 & Tremac 5 speed

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Flywheel </span>6 bolt flywheel (Mustang or Ranger???)
<span style="text-decoration: underline">Starter</span> from a manual Mustang
<span style="text-decoration: underline">Clutch slave </span>- did the original Mustan one work?
<span style="text-decoration: underline">Drive shaft</span> Modification to the front end of the drive shaft

Did you guys ever finish this, take pictures, have a parts list??? Any help would be appreciated. Grady

SebringGlenn
11-20-2017, 09:31 PM
This is great info... I have a non running 280i and no trans at all... yes i responded to a 10 year old thread.
Glenn