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WhatsThatNoise
06-21-2006, 07:15 PM
ColdPlugs got me thinking about why the Lotus Eleven is my favorite Loti.

Back in the mid 50's we used to have cars called "Club Racers".

They were barely road cars...........And really dual use vehicles.

If I was going to start a vintage race organization it would have a rule that, like the old days, you drive your car to the track to race.

Cars like the Eleven (non Le Mons & with the windscreen) blurred the later distinction between club racer and sport racer.

Cars like the Elva Courier, Lotus 7 & Turner were true club racers
( A true club racer has less creature comforts than a classic sports car like the MGA or 100-4)

The Eleven, I think, is the ONLY street legal sport racer.

ColdPlugs?

billspohn
06-22-2006, 09:11 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The Eleven, I think, is the ONLY street legal sport racer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously the definition of street legal sports racer is a bit vague, and I can think of a few cars that might fit it, ranging from my old TVR (you may disqualify it as being a coupe)through the Ginetta G4.

I think that the Lotus 7 has to be included as well - only rudimentary weather gear and nothing extra not needed for fast driving.

Don't forget that the Lotus 11 also had a convertible top. The story is that they needed it to be allowed to race at Le Mans, so Chapman had something quickly done up - but never thought to see if you could actually erect the contraption.

I think that the street C and D type Jags also qualify as sports racers.

Simon TR4a
06-22-2006, 03:40 PM
I like the idea of making competitors drive to the track, as an additional class to other vintage races.

Instead of pages of complicated restrictions on modifications this immediately ensures:

1) Drivers race in the vintage spirit, they have to avoid contact so they can drive home.
2) No ridiculous suspensions, you need ground clearance to drive on public roads.
3) No slicks, no crazy motors with cams that come on at 5,000rpm, the clutch won't take it.

I suppose people would figure out the loopholes eventually, (trailer the cars till they get 2 miles from the track or something), racers always do!
Simon.

DART
06-22-2006, 03:55 PM
Love a cynic!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gif

swift6
06-22-2006, 04:09 PM
There is a chap that runs with RMVR (Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing) who drives an original Hertz Mustang. He loads up his equipment into the back seat and trunk areas and drives to different events. There have been plenty of sightings of him driving some long distances in the car so we know he doesn't trailer it close then drive in. He is never near the front of the pack but he always has fun. Honestly though I haven't been to an RMVR race in quite some time so I'm not sure if he is still active or not.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

WhatsThatNoise
06-22-2006, 05:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]

Obviously the definition of street legal sports racer is a bit vague, and I can think of a few cars that might fit it, ranging from my old TVR (you may disqualify it as being a coupe)through the Ginetta G4.


[/ QUOTE ]
I realize this is a very debatable subject.........

I would put the G-4 firmly in the club racer category along with the Elite.
(They were designed to be weekend racers).

As far as the Griffith 200/400 & the Vixen........They are either hard core sports cars or possibly club racers.

I thought of another road legal sport racer.........The 550 spyder

I guess the difference is that a sport racer is a car primarily designed for the track but, can be modified to be road legal while the club racer is designed as duel purpose vehicle.

[ QUOTE ]
I like the idea of making competitors drive to the track, as an additional class to other vintage races.


[/ QUOTE ]
Racing on/in a "level field" is about as likely as any unrealistic fantasy.
(That is why I rather like the SCCA's SRF)

WhatsThatNoise
06-22-2006, 05:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]

I think that the street C and D type Jags also qualify as sports racers.

[/ QUOTE ] /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
The XKSS would be a club racer & the E-Type would be a sport car.
Kinda like the 100M & 100-4?

(Except....Aren't all sport racers 4 cylinder? And isn't anything over 4 just called a race car?)

Or is a sport racer just a "privateer"?

Matthew E. Herd
06-23-2006, 08:00 AM
I'd really love to have a club like that (where you could run what you brung), although trailers may be allowed, some minimum (not ridiculous) body to ground clearance requirement could be instituted.

aeronca65t
06-23-2006, 11:42 AM
It's funny: when I think of "club racer" I think of a person . In fact, I'm a club racer.
There is also a class or race cars in the UK and Austraila called Clubmen. Most, I think are Mallocks, Lotus 7s and that sort of thing...and all front-engine, I believe.

Oddly, I consider the sports-racer as almost always mid-engined (everything from a 917K to a Sports Renault).
The Lotus 11, along with the Mallock, does seem like the exception. I'd say these two cars are the only front-engine cars I'd call a sports-racer. With headlights, wipers and so forth, I'd also see a Lotus 11 as a roadster, just like a Mk 1 Sprite, Dave's Elva, a Lotus 7 and other, basic, open two-seaters. I guess it's also technically a sports car too (though many sports cars aren't roadsters, because they have too many creature comforts...but that's just my own definition).

Regarding, driving a racer to the track, a small number of our EMRA guys drive their "ST" cars to the track. "ST" is a prepared class of wheel-to-wheel racing, very similar to the SCCA "IT", so it's quite possible to have an ordinary street car (with a cage and harnesses) run in our ST class.
And most of our Time Trial cars are street driven...even though out TTs are "semi-wheel-to-wheel" (unlike the HPDE events).

I used to drive my SCCA Mitsu Colt ITC car to Lime Rock and race it. It was also my commuter car on Rt. 80, so I had lots of practice seeing hairy driving.
My old pal, Joe Deluca always drove his similar Colt to the track...even up to Watkins Glen (we lost Joe on Flight 93).

AngliaGT
06-23-2006, 11:20 PM
Nial,

Sorry to here about your friend Joe.
I also think of drivers when they use the term "Club Racer".
And "Sports Racer" takes me back to my SCCA days,when we had ASR,BSR.... (A Sports Racer,B Sports Racer...).

- Doug

WhatsThatNoise
06-24-2006, 07:07 AM
I wouldn't call my DeLorean a sports car..........It has air conditioning & electronic everything.

GT would do it.....................But what is my mom's S3 E-type.......Sport car or ?

It is clearly more luxurious than the Elva............Roadster........Club Racer?

There should be a distinction..........Right?