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Michael Oritt
06-10-2006, 07:37 PM
Anyone else signed up?

Best--Michael Oritt, Elva Courier

WhatsThatNoise
06-12-2006, 02:53 PM
I'm working start for Schenley Park and F&C for BeaveRun.

(My Elva will be up in the Brit car area on Sat)

Taz
06-18-2006, 02:23 PM
I will be around the vendors area both days. The Co my wife works for will have some enclosed car trailers on display. I told them I would help out. My Sprite will be at the show field Sat.

Carl

Bugeye58
06-18-2006, 02:36 PM
When is it, Carl?
Jeff

Taz
06-19-2006, 11:28 AM
The Pittsburgh Grand Prix is The 15 & 16 of July at Schenley Park. British Car Day is Sat the 15th. There are events all week before that. ie races at Beaver Run, Car shows, etc, etc
www.pittsburghvintagegrandprix.com (http://www.pittsburghvintagegrandprix.com)

If you are on the East cost this is a GREAT place to see the cars in action. On Sat the 15 and Sun the 16 the cars race on a REAL ROAD course in Pittsburghs Schenley Park.


Carl

Taz
06-19-2006, 11:44 AM
By the way Michael I,m trying to talk Charle into taking both 100-4s and his new project there. But as you know Char will not let just anybody drive his babys!

Carl

aeronca65t
06-19-2006, 01:28 PM
I maybe there for the BeaveRun event.
The boss gave her OK....now I just have to see if the bank account can stand it.

aeronca65t
06-20-2006, 02:25 PM
OK, I just talked to Mark Palmer (http://www.vrgonline.org/officials.html) and he's convinced me to sign up.
The check just went out.
I'll be running in Group 2.
We'll see you at the track (and we'll be at the Luau Saturday night).

Matthew E. Herd
06-23-2006, 07:56 AM
Awesome, I'm going to try to make it out, but just to spectate!

Matthew E. Herd
06-23-2006, 07:56 AM
Awesome, I'm going to try to make it out, but just to spectate! It'll be my third one, and it's always a blast.

Michael Oritt
06-23-2006, 06:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
By the way Michael I,m trying to talk Charle into taking both 100-4s and his new project there. But as you know Char will not let just anybody drive his babys!

Carl

[/ QUOTE ]

Carl--

I haven't heard much from Charlie--I know he has been busy.

It's going to be a close thing on whether the Courier will be back together in time for either event--connecting rods are at machine now waiting attention. I'll know more next week.

Best--Michael Oritt

Taz
06-25-2006, 09:01 AM
We had dinner last night. As it turns out business forces him to be in Colorado during the Grand prix. I promised a friend that I would help him with his vendor both, but it depends on the weather if I will have my car. Getting drowned 2 years in a row was not nice. I am hoping for a good weekend, but we have been having alot of rain here. maybe I will see you there.

Carl

WhatsThatNoise
06-25-2006, 11:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Getting drowned 2 years in a row was not nice.


[/ QUOTE ]
Lots of fun driving home on slicks http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/party/party0053.gif

Taz
06-25-2006, 12:18 PM
I have not tried that in LBC, But I can say that is no fun in a high HP hot rod on slicks

DART
06-28-2006, 05:44 PM
Michael- thought I had found a source for wheels, then Jack Merryman told me the history of your car and that you had already been in contact. He's doing my #849 SP250.. Oh well!

racing girl
06-28-2006, 07:03 PM
I love this event, we made the trip from Michigan last year with other members of The Detroit Triumph and Sportscar Club... and yes, it knows how to rain in Pittsburgh! Can't make it this year though.... engine is still not together. Schenley Park is a fantastic setting for the main event/car show, a true road course.

RG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/england.gif

aeronca65t
06-28-2006, 07:04 PM
I see that Mark has now listed me on the starting grid.
Even kept my #11.
Cool.

http://www.cloverleaf-auto.com/group_2.htm

General info for the BeaveRun event is ~HERE~. (http://www.vrgonline.org/EVENTS/BEVR/BEVR.html)

DART
06-28-2006, 07:39 PM
Group 2 looks like a real cat fight. I'll be very interested to see how you do against #80...best of luck Nial!!!

Michael Oritt
06-29-2006, 04:51 PM
I'm off the Group 1 list--the car is just not going to come together in time for either event. I'll be at Schenley Park in the 100--spectating.

Bummed....Michael Oritt, Elva Courier

aeronca65t
07-06-2006, 10:25 PM
Sorry to hear that the Elva is "She No Goes!"
Still...a Healey 100 ain't exactly a shabby ride!

I've been away the last three days visiting my Dad in the hospital (he's home now and he's fine).

Anyway, today was a mad rush to drive home and get everything ready, but I think I've got everything. I'm off early tommorrow to Mars (Mars, PA that is). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm guessing the Mars Sheraton will have wireless. If not, I'll be off-line until Monday.

Here's pictures of the event from a previous year:
http://www.september8th.com/BeaveRun-04/MONTAGE4.jpg

aeronca65t
07-12-2006, 10:11 PM
OK, that was a neat event!
We parked next to an Ermini for the event (I have never even seen an Ermini before.
Lots of Elvas and Turners. No Bugeyes though!
Wish we could have stayed to see the Shenley Park event in the city.

I broke three axles (is that sorta like a "Three Dog Night"?), but kept fixin' and racin'.

~CLICK HERE~ (http://liverpoolmotorclub.tripod.com/vrg-beaverun06.html) to view some of my pictures (two samples below).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/aeronca65t/vintage/mccabe_vrg06_6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/aeronca65t/vintage/mccabe_vrg06_4.jpg

AngliaGT
07-13-2006, 12:03 AM
Wow!,that looks like fun!
How much does it pay?

- Doug

WhatsThatNoise
07-13-2006, 05:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]

I broke three axles

[/ QUOTE ]
I have the number for Winner's Circle if ya want it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif

ChrisS
07-13-2006, 07:27 AM
Somewhat off topic but both Winner's Circle and Acme are out of double bearing hubs - does anyone know another domestic source?

DART
07-13-2006, 09:20 AM
Great pics Nial, glad you were able to keep smiling as the axles went south. Any relationship to the previous wheel loss?
Thanks for taking a shot of #80.

aeronca65t
07-13-2006, 12:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I broke three axles

[/ QUOTE ]
I have the number for Winner's Circle if ya want it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That number is on Speed-Dial here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously, I am likely to do the RX-7 axle conversion this Winter. I think I can do it for around $400 or so. This eliminates the cost of double-bearing hubs and race axles (which is a lot more than $400) plus I'll finally have good real seals. And maybe I'll even end up with limited slip and disk brakes to boot (thought the Mazda drums would be a big improvement).
For more info on this conversion, ~GO HERE~> (http://the-mite.com/mite22.htm) .

Meanwhile, I *think* I may have *tweaked* the rear axle housing when the studs failed (and the wheel came off) at BeaveRun last month. I have several good, spare axle housings, so I'll just slap something together. By the way, I have home-made, double-bearing hubs that I'll use for now, but I've never really been happy with them and had originally planned on buying a "real" set.

I have a one-hour Enduro at Pocono in mid-August, but it's just after we get back from vacation (which is right after my daughter's wedding), so I'm trying to do things on-the-cheap for now.

WhatsThatNoise
07-13-2006, 02:58 PM
The Elva uses the same rear end (except a few inches longer hub to hub)

I had no idea when I bought the car that it would require so much cash to put right.

Tran-X LSD = $1,400.00
3.7 Crown & pinion, bearings & seals = $350.00
REM polish = $150.00
Winners Circle axles = $500.00
Double bearing hubs, bearings & seals = $400.00
Axle housing straightening = $200.00
Quantum Mechanics labor = $400.00

$3,400.00 for the rear end???.........Holy **** /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

I kinda wanted to put some cash in the engine /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

WhatsThatNoise
07-13-2006, 03:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Somewhat off topic but both Winner's Circle and Acme are out of double bearing hubs - does anyone know another domestic source?

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't even know about Acme......Sorry no help here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[ QUOTE ]

Thanks for taking a shot of #80.

[/ QUOTE ]
The Daimler??? Don't they have too many pistons to be playing with Spridgets? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonono.gif

aeronca65t
07-13-2006, 04:37 PM
Dave:

Acme Speed Shop at http://www.acmespeedshop.com/

The owner (Hap) is a poster here at BCF. Lotsa neat stuff for Brit cars at Acme.

As for the V-8 Daimler, I'm still figuring out this "classing system" in vintage racing.
I guess they're trying to get cars that have similar overall lap times. That SP-250 was no match for the 1147 cc Spitfire (which had a killer engine with an 8000 RPM redline).
We also had a Chevy V-8 powered Kurtis and similar V-8 Devin as well as the SP-250.
The winner of the Group 2 class was Tivvy Shenton that old Jag XK-140 FHC. Even with skinny tires, wire wheels and the smaller Jag engine (2.8?) he did great job.
I noticed all the smaller cars ('cept mine) were on racing Hoosier slicks but the big-engine cars seemed to generally be on skinny vintage-style rubber.
The "mix" of cars was interesting.....

RobSelina
07-13-2006, 05:33 PM
Nial, I've always thought that first gen RX7 axle swap was worthwhile, expecially considering the cost of aftermarket parts for the spridget axle.

I wonder though, does it afect your classification? I looked up SCCA Production class cars (I've always assumed you run 'H' class production) and under that classification we're required to keep the stock rear axle housing...

aeronca65t
07-13-2006, 08:03 PM
Rob:

In EMRA, this rear would be fine and some other groups (including VRG, Midwest Council SCC, etc.) would be OK with it too.
This would not be OK with the SCCA, although I think some regions would let it slide.
SVRA would not allow it for sure.

By the way, here's some professional photos I just got sent (proofs) of the BeaveRun event...somewhere in these pages (there's 23 pages) there's a GT-40 getting hammered hard in the rear by a 914.

~CLICK HERE~ (http://a1fotos.exposuremanager.com/g/vrg_racing&gallery_page=&gallery_all=&view=1&photo _page=5)

~OR HERE~ (http://a1fotos.exposuremanager.com/g/vrg_racing&gallery_page=&gallery_all=&view=1&photo _page=4)

~OR HERE~ (http://a1fotos.exposuremanager.com/g/vrg_racing&gallery_page=&gallery_all=&view=1&photo _page=3)

[edit]-- ~HERE IS~ (http://a1fotos.exposuremanager.com/g/vrg_racing&gallery_page=&gallery_all=&view=1&photo _page=7) the page that shows the GT40 getting rammed by a 914

RobSelina
07-13-2006, 10:45 PM
ouch! Looks like the GT40 ate dirt, returned to asphalt when an unsuspecting 914 found a slow moving object in it's path?

RobSelina
07-13-2006, 10:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
In EMRA, this rear would be fine and some other groups (including VRG, Midwest Council SCC, etc.) would be OK with it too.
This would not be OK with the SCCA, although I think some regions would let it slide.
SVRA would not allow it for sure.


[/ QUOTE ]

Gotcha. Out here, almost everything I know of is SCCA afiliated....I'm sure there are other organizations, but I sure haven't heard of them....

aeronca65t
07-14-2006, 05:43 AM
What about "Southwest Motorsports Club"?......they sound sort of like EMRA. (they race at Sandia...one of the Sunbeam guys here at BCF races with them)

http://www.swms.org/


You're right about the GT-40. He pulled out right in front of the 914 from what I heard (and the pictures seem to bear that out).

RobSelina
07-14-2006, 10:19 AM
You're right, they're independent, but they still use the SCCA GCR for classification/modification regulations.

I've been invited to attend their events before and have been pretty tempted, but my car isn't quite legal for them yet (need that DOM tubing to show up, along with some other safety equipment)

RobSelina
07-14-2006, 10:28 AM
on a related note, I just can't decide if i'd really like to turn this car into a full race car. autocross is one thing, but road race seems like I'm asking for touble. It's still in pretty good shape....

...gotta follow up on that 914...;)

AngliaGT
07-14-2006, 09:19 PM
There was a '67 Midget race car for sale on the San Francisco craigslist for $2500.

- Doug

Matthew E. Herd
07-14-2006, 10:53 PM
My plan is to convert mine to semi-stock (suspension wise) and get the racy carbs dialed in so that it's comfortable to drive, and leave it at that. Then I'll get a 'dedicated' racer (in rougher shape). However, I've discovered (after competing in a few national autocross events this year) that if you want to be nationally competitive, you pretty much have to have the right car for the class you're in and it has to be a car dedicated to autocross. If you're not interested in national competitiveness, then you can have a hillclimb/autocross car that's reasonably competitive nationally and plenty of fun besides (because you can compete in FSP w/ the midget in hillclimbs/time trials with only a roll-bar and a few other mods).

However, let it be said that I've done the math. In F street prepared, they recently put all A-1 chassis VW's on the same line (meaning they can update and backdate between all models of A-1 chassis). This allows those VW racers who formerly had to stick with the best compromise car (a scirocco) to put a cabriolet engine in a rabbit, and make (with standalone fuel management) an estimated 120 Wheel HP in an approximately 1600 lb car. Once someone actually builds one and wins nationals, I expect they'll promptly undo that stupid rule change. However, let us compare the local (former nationals winning) VW Scirocco. Completely rules legal, it weighs about 1850 lbs and makes 95 WHP (documented). It's currently for sale at http://www.phillyscca.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1695 I have no vested interest in the car, but the details are readily available (and having been beat by about 3.8 seconds at last Sunday's autocross, I can vouch for it's speed).

Unfortunately, out of a 1500 or 1275, we're unlikely to see more than about 75-80 WHP within the Street Prepared rules (I'll verify this with Vizard's book soon). If we look at the listed weight for a 1500, it's 1850 lbs. Assuming the curb weight is exactly accurate, we're down approximately 20 hp and with no weight advantage. The CG is probably a bit lower. However, if we consider a MkI or II sprite/MkI midget, they weigh in the neighborhood of 1450 lbs and you can update to a 1275. This would make for a competitive (although a bit lower) power to weight ratio, but a much more attractive CG height, as well as front to rear weight distribution, etc.

While we're probably not going after nationals right now, this will probably be the car I campaign when I get the time and money to put such a vehicle together (and prepare it properly). It just helps to keep everything in perspective when we're considering extensive modifications to an already heavy car.

On the other hand, if you want to go for road racing, perhaps the car can be made competitive. However, the GCR (unless it was changed in the last two years) states that the 1500 must run with a single 1.5" carb (SU of ZS). This is a big disadvantage on top of the already significant bottom end issues (and therefore max RPM limits) as compared with a 1275 spridget. Just my 2 cents.

Hap Waldrop
07-15-2006, 09:45 AM
In the SCCA, the 1500s are allowed twin carbs atleast on the Spitfire anyway, hardly anyone bothers with 1500 in the Spridget for racing, most everyone runs the 1275. A good SCCA F Production 1275 can put out close to 150 horsepower, with the allowed modified HS4s, ported, polished heads, 1.5 roller rockers trick high cams (.550" at the valve) and really high compression as high as 15 to 1. A vintage racing 1275 can even put a little more as no one checks engine, so you get people that have big bore 1400 cc motors, with big valve and side draft weber carbs. On the new limited prep 1275 that runs in H Production, where we are limited to a .450" cam lift at the valve, stock rocker arms, 11.0 to one compression, only 1" gasket porting on the head, stock HS2s, we're getting real close to 90 horsepower at the rear wheels which is close to 105-108 flywheel horsepower. All of these configerations are on leaded race gas.

Matthew E. Herd
07-15-2006, 10:51 PM
Unfortunately, in Street Prepared rules, you can't do a cam change, or basically anything internal-engine. Therefore, we're severely limited in terms of porting, valve lift, etc. Similar to limited prep rules, we're looking at porting only 1" from the mounting surface of the head. Although there are a few minor loopholes (cam must match manufacturer's specifications) which would allow a reprofiled (but still essentially stock) cam, they probably won't amount to more than 5 hp at the wheels, realistically speaking. However, reviewing "Bolt-on Modifications" from Vizard's book, it seems that (except for the modified head -- increase in CR, port/polish) everything he does can be matched, with perhaps a bit more besides in terms of fuel management (can use FI if you can make it work ...) and ignition timing. I'm curious if anyone knows about working on optimizing ignition timing for more power. I think that may yield a few odd horsepower that would help keep up with those darned VW's.

Hap Waldrop
07-16-2006, 06:22 AM
Matthew are you going to use the 1275 or 1500?

Matthew E. Herd
07-16-2006, 11:04 PM
I plan (eventually) on using a 1275, as they're more bulletproof in the bottom end, and have more available parts selections. They may suffer on the porting a bit, but that's not a huge issue, as they're still fairly potent. As an aside, Midgets and Sprites aren't actually listed on the same line of Street Prepared rules, meaning they can't be updated/backdated between the two cars. I know this is absurd, but perhaps a letter is in order ...

Hap Waldrop
07-17-2006, 08:51 AM
Matt, from understanding your rules, no head porting, with the exception of the 1" gasket porting in SCCA road racing
"limited prep" motors we're in the same delima atleast on cylinder heads. When LP rules came out, we all knew the need for a cherry head cores that flowed the most stock would become an issue. What alot of found was the head core shift was the magic deal. On some heads, both pre smog 12G940s and smog heads 12G1316s we found that some heads had upward core shift which made the humps in the ports where the valve guides protrudes through to be the deciding factor. A good upward core shift head will flow a good 8 CFM per port more tham a bad example. They are very noticable when inspecting head cores with the valves removed, you will see little or no hump in the exahaust ports and smaller humps in the intake ports. This year I'm helping two former SCCA HP national champoions make the switch to the limited prep 1275 for the the full prep 948s they were formally ran, Randy Canfield and Ron Bartell, we flowed a ton of 1275 heads on my flowbench and the top two became thier heads. I continue to flow 1275 heads to find good cores for the LP engines. So now you know what to look for on a 1275 head and I can flow it for you to confirm it is a good flowing head when you find a suitable core or possibly provide you with a good flowing core. Hope this helps.

Matthew E. Herd
07-17-2006, 10:34 AM
Wow, good stuff. Don't expect to take on this project for a few years yet, but it's really good to know. I'm looking for 'every little bit helps.'

The wheel and tire package will be something on the order of 13x8" with 225/45R13's ... pretty absurd on a spridget, eh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm also curious how low we could get the suspension. I'm looking for a minimum of 1.5 to 2" bump travel. You can modify bump stops and change springs or add spacers. I figure if you eliminate the bump stop and its' perch on the rear axle (judging by my 1500) that you could drop the car as much as 4 inches from stock. Fenders can be cut outboard of the wheel mounting surface to accommodate the modification. I'm less familiar with the acceptable modifications up front, but I (personally) only have trouble with hitting the stops in the rear, even though the front is lowered 1.5" or so. However, lowering the car that much almost certainly requires an in-tunnel exhaust. I assume some of us have experience with these?

RobSelina
07-17-2006, 03:00 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious if anyone knows about working on optimizing ignition timing for more power. I think that may yield a few odd horsepower that would help keep up with those darned VW's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Something I'm curious about too.

This link is interesting:

http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/lucastuning.pdf

The most important info is on page two. Maximum power is achieved when maximum pressure is achieved 17-20-degrees ATDC.

If we knew how long it took to burn up the fuel/air mixture in our combustion chamber it would be a relatively simple calculation to get the rough ignition curve for a vehicle. I'm sure it's more complicated than that, but I bet this would be a close calculation, and I bet it would be different than stock!

Hap Waldrop
07-17-2006, 03:41 PM
Get rid of the rubber bump stops in the rear entirely, all you have to do then is get spacers to go in between the axles and springs and longer U bolts, on the front Winners Circle sells lower race springs then to get even lower you can space down the spring pad on the control arm with spacers and longer bolts. Alot of SCCA race cars are running ride heights of 2" or less measured at the rocker panel seam, but if you get this low you need a thru the tunnel exahust header and they are only avaialable for 1275s. The 13 x 8 on the later model car with closed top rear fender won't work, about 5.5" is the best you can hope for, maybe a 6" wheel with major back spacing or cut the fender and go with flares, but then you will need offset or 1" composite rear springs to clear on the inboard side. Rob you are working with a car (MG Midget) which is one of the all time most popular cars ever raced in SCCA road racing, if you can think up something, there is already someone making it. You need to get in touch with a Spriget racers in your area and look at a club racing car, you'll get quite a education, I believe Bruce ( for the life of me can't remember his last nmae right now) lives in NM, also I've got a good friend in Prescott AZ. who club road races Midgets, he's in the wheel business and can probably help you with your wheel needs. Rob, you're traveling down a well traveled path and no need to re invent the wheel, it's already invented. Have you visited my website that would be good start?

RobSelina
07-17-2006, 04:27 PM
Hap - is Bruce a PCA member with a GT2 class car? If that's who you're thinking of I've met him, really nice guy!

Hap Waldrop
07-17-2006, 06:37 PM
Not that I know of, but I recall his last name now, Bruce Gurney. He used to race a neon orange Midget in F Production, may still for all I know, I'm pretty sure he was at the Mid Ohio runoffs last year. Bruce used to work for Huffaker as well.

RobSelina
07-17-2006, 09:58 PM
haven't met Bruce Gurney yet, hopefully I'll run into him at one of these SWMS events!

Matthew E. Herd
07-17-2006, 11:01 PM
Hap,

Keep in mind this is a future early car that I was planning on cutting the fenders to stick those wheels out. I don't know about the GCR, but Solo rules for Street Prepared don't require that the tires are within the flares. I've already got 5" wheels on my 1500, and you're right, they JUST fit! I didn't get offset springs, but the rule is that you must maintain stock mounting points. I was also going to go with the in tunnel exhaust, but heard they make the tunnels quite warm (not that it really matters). Since solo courses tend to have fairly flat parking lots, you can usually get away with 2" from the seam on the rockers to the ground almost all the time. I currently have (with a regular exhaust, 2 1/4" diameter with flanges besides) less than 3" ground clearance, and I never have trouble on course, only over speed bumps and in my stone driveway!

The reason to modify the bump stop pedestal would be to retain as much travel as possible while getting the car down too. I've already got the moss lowered rear springs and 400 lb/in springs in the front, so I'm familiar with the typical performance items. As I said before, I can get away with 13x8" wheels because the rules say you can modify the hood and fenders outboard of the wheel mounting surface (brake drum/rotor) with flares. They also say you don't need to keep the wheels within the fenders, so as long as I can still turn, I can stick them out 4" if I so desire. I can also use a very small backspace in the rear to avoid spring clearance issues.

I'm aware that this will make the car difficult to turn (from a steering wheel perspective) but it should dramatically increase the track and the amount of rubber on the road. Track isn't restricted in SP, so if they make a wider wheel and DOT legal tire, we can use them (luckily, 225mm in a 13" wheel is the limit).

Hap Waldrop
07-18-2006, 08:22 AM
Offset rear spring use stock pick up points as do the composite rear springs. With that much rubber on the road you probably want to go with double bearing rear hubs as well or you'll start breaking axles.

Matthew E. Herd
07-25-2006, 09:19 AM
Yeah. Unfortunately (even though it's not a performance advantage) that may or may not be rules legal ... It's a gray area.

RobSelina
07-25-2006, 12:44 PM
double wheel bearing hubs are not allowed in FSP, but they are in GP....